Episode 70 Clinical Consultations as a Form of Support & Self-care for Therapists: Interview With Kathryn Esquer

00:01.41

Chris McDonald

Welcome to today's episode of the holistic counseling podcast I hope everyone's day is going well I don't know about you byebe been feeling a sense of isolation online because I no longer have my in-person practice. So this has been a struggle that's been kind of creeping up on me and just that feeling at the end of the day that I'm not connecting enough with other therapists and especially those who get it because our field is so different from other fields. So I was looking for options for connecting with other therapists finding community. And I was so excited to come across the teletherapist network created by Dr Catherine Catherine Esquire the teletherapist network is the only private consultation community for the next generation of therapists Catherine is passionate about eliminating isolation and burnout in the field of mental health. By prioritizing connection and community the teletherapist network brings together forward-thinking therapists to create unparalleled success in their clinical skills, professional businesses and personal lives welcome to the podcast Katherine.

01:07.63

Kathryn

Thank you so much Chris it's great to be here. Yeah, absolutely so like you said I founded the teletherapist network but I also happened to be a clinical psychologist.

02:20.53

Chris McDonald

Can you share more about yourself and your work.

01:44.75

Kathryn

In practice in my rural town of in Pennsylvania central Pennsylvania um, and I absolutely love what I do clinically but I knew that there was such a need for therapists, especially post pandemicic world to connect on ah on a deeper. Quality level. Um more so than we get perhaps um yeah in those thousand plus person Facebook groups. Um, so that's why I created the network it really focuses on connecting quality clinicians for clinical consultations. And sharing of resources we can work smarter together as long as we do that with the right group of people so that is that's why I created the network and when I'm not working clinically or growing the network. Um I have 2 toddlers who I love to spend time with. Um, and my husband and my sister and it's just this full house of of energy that is an amazing break from sitting in front of a computer.

05:00.83

Chris McDonald

I Hear you so can you describe what? the teletherapist Network is in detail.

04:07.95

Kathryn

Yeah, so we do a lot of different things. You know I kind of started as this just private community for asynchronous communications when I say asynchronous I mean like form based where someone posts a question and we all answer it started. Just started as a private community away from social media. It started in July 2020 which we all know we thought the pandemic I know right? Well we thought the pandemic was gonna end shortly thereafter and it did not um so it started that way but it quickly.

06:00.65

Chris McDonald

Um, perfect timing. Yeah.

05:19.45

Kathryn

Grew to a lot of different live events and live consultation groups and um, that's mainly what we do is we offer consultation groups for clinicians looking for that clinical support and social support. So that's all right? That's the main offering. But it obviously comes with so much other things that you know Chris you can you can attest to being a member of the network which is how we got connected. Um, we being the only clinical consultation community for clinicians out there. We attract some pretty and.

07:15.43

Chris McDonald

Yes.

06:34.70

Kathryn

Credible experts in our field in the field of mental health authors influencers researchers. They want to connect with high calib or clinicians and that is what we are at the network. So. Have a lot of those guests who ask to come on and speak to us share their work with us share their resources with us and so we have over 40 different master classes that were live events that we've recorded for everyone all members new and old to watch and at least once usually None to 3 times a month we have additional master classes where we have guest experts come on and teach us something new. So I mean it ranges the guest experts range from financial gurus. To clinical supervisors. We have None coming up at this Friday actually with improvisation in the therapy room. So really have really neat topics that I would not have been able to get exposed to otherwise.

09:29.35

Chris McDonald

Interesting.

08:41.99

Kathryn

So It's It's a really fun Community. We really try and support the whole Clinician Both clinically business resources and also socially you know we have a monthly book club where we read for fun and for and for work and it's just a really great place to connect with clinicians that you wouldn't. Develop peer relationships that you would not have crossed paths with otherwise across you know State lines We have clinicians from other countries across license types. It just really attracts the highest caliber clinicians out there and so I'm really really fortunate that. I've been able to grow my network um by creating the network. Yeah.

11:02.50

Chris McDonald

And grow your network by creating it I love it. That's good. Yeah, and I got to say as a a member I've just started and and we are talking before I hit record about how it can be difficult a little bit at None to navigate. But.

10:25.21

Kathryn

Yeah.

11:35.50

Chris McDonald

Katherine has made the made it so easy though with um, an introductory video to help you go through it and there's like a feed you have that you can see what people post things and and I like how you can just post questions about anything private practice really I was like this is awesome.

10:40.29

Kathryn

Um, yeah, um, yeah, yeah, it's it definitely. There's a lot going on and so most people they don't engage with all of it but they.

12:11.37

Chris McDonald

So helpful.

11:19.11

Kathryn

They they take what they need right? and they and they give what they can. That's the best thing I think about our members is that just talking to another member Ellie joy about this that it's not a place where people just take take take.

12:27.75

Chris McDonald

Yes.

11:46.33

Kathryn

All the members who engage give of themselves and give up their clinical skills and recommendations and advice where in some free Facebook groups out there it it does feel very very take take take where people ask questions but they never they never give back to the community. So.

13:20.57

Chris McDonald

Right? And I love my Facebook groups too. But I always feel like there's something missing in that and it's I mean you're connecting but you're not connecting in some ways. Do you know what? I mean.

12:21.99

Kathryn

We're really lucky to have a good group.

12:34.71

Kathryn

Um, yeah.

12:47.79

Kathryn

Yeah I think what was missing for me and that's the whole reason I I started the network was because I was a member of the Facebook groups but they were either overly overly regulated to the point where I was afraid to ask anything.

14:23.25

Chris McDonald

Right.

13:24.53

Kathryn

Um, or they were underregulated where it was kind of a freefor all and overwhelming. So I didn't feel like there was this place where I could go I kind of liken it too when I was in graduate school like the break room in my graduate school or the. You know lobby of our building where we all all the students and all my classmates and I congregated before after class and where we got to pick each other's brains clinically and personally and see how we're doing and check in and support each other on different levels. Um, there wasn't There's not that area out there for Us. Who have graduated and work in private practice by Ourselves. So I was really trying to replicate that opportunity Now. It's up to members to take advantage of it right? You're not just going to join and have instant deep connections but the opportunity the space, the environment to create those friendships.

16:05.99

Chris McDonald

Of course.

15:21.30

Kathryn

Um, and those deep peer relationships too. So yeah, it's been a journey. It's been a journey of learning how to build community and sustain community. Um, and that's ah yeah, that's a great question.

16:44.97

Chris McDonald

Now How do you do that because it's an online platform.

15:52.51

Kathryn

So there's a lot of buzz going around out there right now about community building online and I think it started with the Facebook groups right? where every every if you had a digital product or you had something to market. You had a Facebook group where you would collect all your potential customers and then hopefully they convert. That's not necessarily community. A community is is is likeminded people coming together on the same journey right? moving towards similar goals on the same not necessarily the exact same path but working as a as a whole towards something and so. I really was able to dive into a lot of the psychological literature out there and there's some really great resources on community building and what it takes to not only build a community in person. But what it takes to build a community online which is a whole different ballgame and being able to pull people. Motivate people have people feel safe enough to be able to share some vulnerability through their computer screen and make connections with um, you know out of a large group of people virtually and so it's been It's been quite the learning process and I've enjoyed it. It's it's kind of tapped into a totally different. Um, area of psychology for me going from None on None individual work to now building community among clinicians and it's been. It's been ah, it's been fun. It's been really really fun

19:43.25

Chris McDonald

Is there certain types of therapists that might benefit from this more than others.

18:47.50

Kathryn

Yeah I would say that the the people who get the most out of the network are those looking for more social support and social support is such a broad term where people might be looking for business building or private practice building social support. Or clinical social support or personal. You know, just being a therapist as a human like I need support in that sometimes like how do we let go of our workday at the end of the day so anyone really out there looking for social support I think would be a good fit for the network. We we don't you know there's a lot of groups out there that primarily focus on clinicians in private practice and that is not us. We do have a lot of members in private practice. But we also have an um I think equal number of those clinicians in agency work or working in organizations who still feel socially isolated. They do have peers but they don't have the environment or atmosphere at their job to get this type of network support behind them and so they really benefit from joining the network too.

22:06.45

Chris McDonald

And can you talk about the types of consultation groups. You have.

21:08.30

Kathryn

Yeah, well we have a lot of we originally started off with general consultation groups. So just you know drop in I host one on Monday evenings and my friend Ryan Coventry hosts None on Friday afternoons and they are just drop in anything goes. Any topics clinical topics or personal topics can be explored in a safe group. But then as we continue to grow our members reached out to me and they said hey I have this really great skill that I would love to share with the network can I host a consultation group for instance. Um, my friend Allie joy who joined and I met her through the network she is a registered art therapist and she hosts once a month a creativity in the clinical room where she teaches members how to a new creative intervention to bring to the clinical room. That they can do with supplies they have around their house and so she came and she was like I would love to teach this and so she ran she runs her own consultation group and then we had other members who say hey, ah you know I'm a couples therapist or I'm a child and a lesson therapist and I would really like a consultation group that focuses around that specific topic.

24:05.67

Chris McDonald

Oh nice.

23:34.29

Kathryn

And so we have those consultation groups topics specific like emgr couples ah child and adolescent and then we have members who said hey you know I'm a member of this community. And it shows up differently in clinical work and I would love to be able to connect and process with other members of my specific community and so we have we have consultation groups based around identities. We have an lgbt ku plus clinician group launching next month and we have clinicians of color consultation group. Where clinicians who identify of of color come together. They meet twice a month and they get to process together and lean on each other and develop that sense of community even smaller um a more intimate community within the larger network. So. We're really really member member driven and member led if a member has a need we try and meet it and we we create what we need to create to to lift us all up a rising tide lifts all ships I think is the phrase. Um, and so we try and do that for every.

26:44.45

Chris McDonald

Nice I like that. Yeah and I just want to talk for a None about my experience so far because I've I've only gone to 2 and tried to fiddle my way through you know all the information and I haven't taken master class yet I do want to look at those and haven't made it there. But.

25:47.47

Kathryn

But. Um, yeah.

26:13.91

Kathryn

Um, there's some fun ones.

27:24.30

Chris McDonald

I think that's so helpful. Yeah, that there's so many things that you can look at but I will say even last night I went to the Monday night one. It was just so interesting. The variety of therapists in the group and it just came it dawned on me like it just came to me that. Wow you know part of this and I think you mentioned this when someone said that we've all been. There is that feeling that universality that you know somebody was talking about. Um you know, getting pushback for enforcing a fee right for a late fee which oh yeah, especially private practice people are like and they have done that.

26:55.25

Kathryn

You have.

27:12.63

Kathryn

Yeah, no show. Ah.

28:34.45

nothinleft

Many times but that's so true, but it's like Wow so we are all connected. It just reminded me of that that feeling that we're not alone in this and even if things don't go well in our daily routines that you know. On this network you can go and connect with others who may be experiencing the same thing normalizing. That's the word. Yeah.

28:02.45

Kathryn

Yeah it's so normalizing validating? Yeah, no absolutely and that's one thing I learned I did my residency my postdoc at a college counseling center and the one thing I learned I really learned many things I actually loved the training there. Um was that. if I'm if I'm going through something 9.5 times out of None someone else in my in my in my department has also gone through something similar and so having that environment that safe space of trusted colleagues where I knew them and they knew me.

30:05.27

Chris McDonald

Right? yeah.

29:19.71

Kathryn

Was invaluable and I really missed that when I left and that that is something that like I said about the the grad school break room I'm equally trying to create that environment environment in the network. Yeah yeah.

30:49.30

Chris McDonald

Yeah, the grad school break room the water cooler that's funny. But I also think that um as I was you know listening last night too it's just such an awesome space to have that. Available because I think someone else mentioned something that just happened right that they haven't even processed and and how powerful is that and I think of all the things in my day that go unprocessed or I just have to think about it by myself like maybe reach out to a friend and who knows when we're going to catch up with each other and.

30:22.23

Kathryn

Aha and hall.

30:39.30

Kathryn

Um, yeah.

31:58.47

Chris McDonald

That's kind of the problem right? We can make connections in our community or online but you know if it's not purposely set for that. Well when are you available when can we then it becomes a ah whole thing right? that are already busy days to to find that space. But.

31:07.53

Kathryn

Um, yeah, home home.

32:30.25

nothinleft

To be able to have that too with unexpected things that pop up that maybe you've never dealt with what an amazing resource for self-care and because I think that if we don't and I noticed this with myself now that I'm all online. It's just it build up right with our.

31:31.63

Kathryn

That's not.

31:50.45

Kathryn

At home until.

33:03.77

Chris McDonald

Our emotions and so many things that we become dysregulated if we're not able to do other self-care too. It's just it. It just is too much cumulative effect I Guess what I'm thinking of.

32:02.25

Kathryn

Um, no.

32:17.45

Kathryn

Oh absolutely and we not even cumulative effect in our work but also in our lives like with our own personal relationships that shows up. Yeah yeah, last last night's group was really great because we had 2 members.

33:32.69

Chris McDonald

Yes, yes.

32:45.43

Kathryn

Come in and said right before this I had something happen that I needed to process and it was so great to have that space already available for them that you know like you said about reaching out to a friend so often that feels or can feel burdensome or like we're taking. Um, but these spaces you know we have multiple consult groups that are available to everyone multiple times a week um where those spaces are readily available that you are not. You are not asking for something that isn't already there and it makes it easy to be able to show up for yourself.

34:53.26

nothinleft

Yeah, that's it right? showing up for yourself and yeah, but I think everybody is so helpful on there too because at None it was kind of like who do I say anything that that shyness and um.

33:53.33

Kathryn

Yeah.

34:11.69

Kathryn

Sure sure.

35:23.13

Chris McDonald

I'm really not shy anymore. But yeah, it was. It's initially. Of course you you have to go in just like okay just give it a go see see what comes up but I don't know if you mentioned it somewhere too that that having like ah, a therapeutic question.

34:38.53

Kathryn

Ah, huh yeah, that's 1 thing that I haven't found out there that there aren't groups focused on clinical skills. A lot of business building.

35:49.47

Chris McDonald

Is helpful for this kind of group too to say hey this is one area I'm struggling with anybody got ideas and.

36:15.71

Chris McDonald

Yeah, sure.

35:17.53

Kathryn

Groups but clinical skills like you need that space as a therapist safe protected confidential space more importantly to be able to say you know people I was actually just on the network right before huffing on this recording and.

36:52.43

Chris McDonald

By.

35:49.51

Kathryn

Someone you know, just posted I won't give away too much information out of respect for privacy. But someone just posted hey I need to be checked on this boundary like what do you?? How do you think I handled this boundary. Um, it was regarding scheduling and no showing but calling it was it was a complicated boundary setting and you know. This person was clearly going through some internal struggles of how to handle this like right now and she was able to go into the network and asynchronously post hey boundary. Check How do you?? How would you handle this? What do you think and get feedback almost you know in the moment. Um, so and being able to get that off your chest and be able to get that.

38:09.25

Chris McDonald

Ah, yes.

37:07.23

Kathryn

Authentic feedback and it I can't emphasize this enough this safe private confidential space. A a not on social media that is so huge and I think that that is yeah and the more the more you post the more you get out of it. So I so encourage you to post.

38:42.21

Chris McDonald

That's sure you ah exactly and I'm thinking about Facebook groups because you know I've developed my own Facebook group and we have some connection but I think it's different too when you're you know, live face-to-face than ace you know when we're what is the is asynchronous or I forget.

37:59.75

Kathryn

Um, yeah, Syn Asynchronous yeah asynchronous yeah I think Facebook groups absolutely serve a purpose I just think they need they serve a different purpose.

39:17.51

Chris McDonald

1 is not at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um.

39:34.59

Chris McDonald

A different. Yeah.

38:35.95

Kathryn

Um, like if I were looking for networking or um or you know connections or finding resources across a broad broad broad group of people very like general resources that does make sense. You know you're not going to get 50 replies on the network for a request for a resource but you're going to. Get 50 replies for worksheets on a Facebook group I do think they serve different purposes and I think sometimes because it was the only thing available to therapists for so long and it was easy I do think that. Some people you know are trying to meet needs that are just difficult to be met on Facebook groups.

40:58.11

Chris McDonald

No good point and I noticed too in some other groups. Not my group of course that there's a drama in some people will pose something that you know they don't think it's going to cause any issue and they think it's not a plot and then all of a sudden you next know that there's like the comments are turned. Ah.

40:15.99

Kathryn

Um, I know I know? Yeah, yeah, that's what made me scared to post.

41:36.90

Chris McDonald

And like ah yeah, that's it isn't It's like okay who am I offending or am I did I say this a wrong way are people not taking out of context or or judging us because I think you've probably witnessed that as well as therapists where a lot of us are really you know, open minded.

40:41.99

Kathryn

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

42:14.53

Chris McDonald

Generous people. But there is some amount of judginess on Facebook groups at times.

41:13.30

Kathryn

Yeah, and I think that also goes speaks to you know you can't Facebook groups are occurring on Facebook like you can't separate like you can do your best to develop a inclusive supportive environment.

42:42.97

Chris McDonald

Yeah, yeah.

41:49.85

Kathryn

Within a Facebook group on Facebook but you're still like it's still showing up in the feed with this person's other posts and comments from their neighbors or from and I think that the overall vibe or culture on Facebook is not as is is.

43:09.91

nothinleft

You were right.

42:29.71

Kathryn

Is not really right for when we're doing clinical consultations.

43:42.43

Chris McDonald

True. Yeah, so what about confidentiality. So if people start talking about clients. How does that work.

42:44.83

Kathryn

Yeah that's a great question and something we dove into before launching our first clinical consultation groups and that is you know it's really up to us as clinicians to protect patient confidentiality. Um, and so you know. As with any any consultation even if it's in person None on one with a supervisor you know you're really only a most state guidelines depending on your license they say only release the minimum amount of personal information necessary to get the good consultation to get ah to get. Necessary for the consultation. So if your client's you know, sexual orientation has no relevance to a particular maybe they canceled and you you need to. You know, ah Consulte about boundaries on cancellations then you shouldn't be disclosing all of this personal information that could identify the client. So. It's really up to us as clinicians both you know inside and outside of the network to protect the patient confidentiality.

46:01.57

Chris McDonald

Yeah, that's a good point to only disclose what is relevant to the therapeutic question. Maybe you're asking.

45:01.83

Kathryn

Yeah, and then obviously everything's hippo compliant just out. It's not necessary but it is out of an abundance of privacy and in confidentiality. Oh yeah.

46:35.29

Chris McDonaldAnd do you have to screen people is that part of your process as well.

45:41.15

Kathryn

Yeah, when you if you it's an application process. So when you apply you have to provide us with your license information or if you are pre-licensed you have to provide us with proof of your student or pre-licensed Status. We are a private community just for clinicians. So We really take that seriously.

47:24.41

Chris McDonald

Because you don't want any potential people that could be clients in there and I think that's a danger with Facebook groups too. No guarantees right? with that. You don't know who's in there really.

46:24.69

Kathryn

Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, it's so true. It's so true. It's true. It's true and we're not trying you know the whole point is that we you know the network.

47:59.89

Chris McDonald

Ah, you're talking to.

47:04.25

Kathryn

We know each other we don't want to be a large large large group because we want that familiarity and that's what leads to quality consultations when you you know, see the same people showing up at your consultation group. You get to know them and you get to know what states they're in and. Orient their theoretical orientations and perhaps you know their own boundary struggles and so that's what we really? That's what leads to great feedback. A great consultation is understanding and knowing the person and ah in in a broader context and so I don't That's very hard to achieve when there's you know.

49:19.50

Chris McDonald

Yeah.

48:17.11

Kathryn

Ah, ah, revolving door of members or when there's too many members and so we're we're not trying to do that. We're trying to create this high quality while I would say we have created a high quality consultation community and we're not going to trade that for anything.

49:52.21

Chris McDonald

Right? That's true I know you mentioned too about um last night you were saying that is everybody comfortable with as many people in a group that seems to be like that's a really strong focus for you.

49:04.17

Kathryn

Um, yeah, yes.

50:23.67

Chris McDonald

How many people are there and and how people feel after the consultation time.

49:23.17

Kathryn

Yeah it's so nice that you bring that up because that was something that was really just surprising to me we had and to give listeners a little clue in normally on our consultation groups because we have so many offerings. Um, they usually end up being about. None to None people 4 to None members attend each consultation group and last night our Monday night consultation group hosted by me. We have 13 and I was like shocked. Um, we've never had that many people come to a single consultation group before across all of our consultation groups. And that was something that I am really thoughtful about of keeping the intimacy and the familiarity among members and so we yeah you know at none I was like oh goodness how is this gonna go. There's None members I'm going on in my head I'm like should we break into two groups and. I eventually decided just to continue with None members because it was going well and we were. We ended up getting um 4 different people had clinical questions or consultation needs. We met all of the needs that were requested and it ended up being and in. Had None of the best consultation groups that I've attended um, and yeah and I think it was because we had so many respectful and different perspectives. So you know people who spoke up spoke up in high calibbra quality.

53:10.70

Chris McDonald

Yay and I got to be there.

52:33.95

Kathryn

Responses and feedback not just speaking up to fill dead space and so at the end I was thinking I was like Wow that went surprisingly really well for ah you know over a dozen attendees and I asked for feedback and I said you know hey guys Like. We hit a milestone This is the largest attendees we've ever had. But and this is something that I have been anticipating but I want to get feedback on on how ah how was the member experience like was this too many people would you have preferred a smaller group. Or did you feel like this group was beneficial as is and everyone replied saying no this was a really good session and a really good um amount of members and that shocked me I think when we think of consultation groups. We think Smaller is better and that is the case. Most of the time but when you get such high caliber clinicians in a space together. You can have a dozen clinicians and have an excellent consultation group that might have been lacking if there had only been 4.

56:01.30

Chris McDonald

That's true, all the different perspectives and you know everybody's experiences are so different that just really brought a different dynamic to it So have you endured experience so far have you found that people have developed these.

55:02.10

Kathryn

And had is her.

56:31.71

Chris McDonald

Deeper relationships friendships through the group.

55:27.47

Kathryn

Oh my gosh. Absolutely we have we have members who have started private practices together. oh yes, oh yes we have so we've been around for coming up beyond 2 years just shy at 2 years now

56:48.39

Chris McDonald

Are you serious Wow who.

56:00.83

Kathryn

Have members who have traveled across the country to visit each other we have members who you know meet on a regular basis outside of the group we have members I mean who constantly refer to each other because they live near a state border and they meet clinicians in the other state.

57:21.91

Chris McDonald

Nice.

56:38.65

Kathryn

Ah, yeah, no, we have a ton of endeavors that have become like network babies per se come out of the network. So yes, there are the more you give in and the more you show up. There is absolutely a ton of relationships. To be formed friendships. Even if you're looking for friendships to be formed within the network. It's Incredible. It's incredible.

58:24.65

Chris McDonald

So I know you mentioned some outside of the network. So when I looked on there. It said that so there is some events like around the country where people can meet outside the network and.

57:25.81

Kathryn

Um, yeah.

57:39.67

Kathryn

Well, we don't offer in-person events just yet. Um, but we do have some members who you know want to meet up in person in real life and so that is totally up to Them. We see the network as just the catalyst and the starting point for these. Relationships were not that would be so I don't know greedy or or I don't know just thinking very highly of ourselves if we if I think and think all of your interactions should stay within the network. Absolutely not that we are just the starting point for you to be able to meet people. We bring people together. And what you do with it is up to you.

01:00:04.11

Chris McDonald

Right? Yeah so I guess is there any kind of takeaway you could share today that would help listeners who might be considering joining consultation groups.

59:18.50

Kathryn

Yeah, Well I think the first takeaway is consultations. Um, if not a consultation group are an absolute mandatory part of our practice. It is in every licensing and and. And regulatory body that we need to be seeking consultation because we are humans who use our humanness in our profession and so we need to be um, regularly practicing but blind spot checks and staying up to date with best practices. There's no better way to do that than with Consultations. So I would say I think it's something that we're all taught in graduate school and then we go into the field and real life catches up with us and it's something that so often falls by the wayside but it is. You know a part of our ethical guidelines to regularly seek Consultation. So I would encourage anyone out there without a consultation network or colleagues to consult with to absolutely go and find your your group go find the people that. You can build relationships with or already have relationships with that. You can bounce clinical ideas ethical dilemmas or even personal reactions with it is it is Incredible. It I would say it is necessary for a part of ethical practice to have these types of consultations. Ah, So don't underestimate Them. Don't think of them as superllipous or just unnecessary. They are ah an incredible part of ethical clinical practice and self-care.

01:03:42.99

Chris McDonald

Yes, and I think it makes you a better therapist from my experience I I used to go some in-person ones before the pandemic and and sometime and you know I'd bring something to the group and I was like my God I Never even thought of these ideas in my stretch of my imagination. So.

01:02:51.27

Kathryn

Um, yeah.

01:03:02.15

Kathryn

Um.

01:04:20.99

Chris McDonald

It can bring you just like Wow So there's really some other dynamic ideas that make you a better therapist. A better learner too because we're all learning I feel in this field and learning some of these strategies or ways of looking at things to help clients. So it really is to benefit you and your clients Your overall.

01:03:47.49

Kathryn

Oh absolutely. Absolutely.

01:04:56.83

Chris McDonald

This Katherine is there anything I've missed that you want to share. Yeah yeah, thank you.

01:04:00.31

Kathryn

No I think that we covered just about everything. Just thank you Chris for this opportunity and for being such a valuable member of the network like we are the network is nothing without our members right? so.

01:05:29.23

Chris McDonald

Of course.

01:04:28.87

Kathryn

It's really awesome to have such a great group of multi-passionate Clinicians who are so supportive and you are absolutely one of them.

01:05:46.29

Chris McDonald

Yes, thank you And what's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you.

01:04:50.31

Kathryn

Yeah, so we are at http://telltherapist.network on Instagram and also our website is http://http://wwwww.teletherapistnetwork.com that's all None word and um. Yeah, we'd love to see you join the network and be part of our group.

01:06:35.93

Chris McDonald

And I'll be putting that in the show notes as well for our listeners to find that but thank you so much for coming on to the podcast Katherine you reached the end of another episode of the holistic counseling podcast.

01:05:44.35

Kathryn

Absolutely thank you Chris.

01:07:05.71

Chris McDonald

Um, check out my newly released updated website at ww wwww dot holisticcoingpodcast dot com and you can check out past episodes show notes and a resource page filled with handpick resources to support you and your practice this is Chris Mcdonald's sending each one of you much light and love till next time take care.