Episode 44 The Hidden connection between Mental Health and Physical pain with Debora Wayne

[CHRIS McDONALD]

The Holistic Counseling Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Behind the Bite, Full of Shift and Impact Driven Leader, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, where you discover diverse wellness modalities, advice on growing your integrative practice, and grow confidence in being your unique self. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I'm so glad you're here for the journey.

[CHRIS]

Welcome today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I have been looking forward to this episode and today's guest for a while. I've had chronic pain for most of my life, and I know many of you listeners also suffer from it. And from my experience, it can trigger feelings of anxiety, depression, hopelessness, lots of negative emotions. Debora Wayne is here today to discuss the hidden connection between mental health and physical pain. She is founder and CEO of the International Chronic Pain Institute.

She's a world renowned energy healer who's leading edge non-drug method known as high speed healing. She has virtually helped tens of thousands around the world to rapidly release chronic pain, depression, anxiety, trauma battles with weight, binge eating, chronic fatigue, insomnia, and other chronic conditions. Debora has earned degrees in certifications in psychology, hypnotherapy and chemical dependency counseling, has 35 plus years practicing and teaching meditation, is a nationally recognized glass artist, a former professional modern dancer and certified yoga instructor. Welcome to the podcast, Debora,

[DEBORA WAYNE]

Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Hello everyone. Thanks for inviting me.

[CHRIS]

That was a lot. I just read. I was like, wow, you've done a lot with your life, haven't you?

[DEBORA]

I have. My father always used to say no moss grow under Debora.

[CHRIS]

I'm getting the impression you like to learn too.

[DEBORA]

I have to learn. I find that, I always have to have something I'm just excited about and I'm diving into and learning. It's quite inspiring for me to have that going on. So always looking for the next thing.

[CHRIS]

Yes, me too. Excellent. So can you tell my listeners a little bit more about yourself and your work?

[DEBORA]

Absolutely. So as Chris shared, I am the founder of the international chronic pain Institute and my greatest passion in life since my own health hell, which happened over 30 years ago now and getting out of that health hell and rebuilding from the inside out, my passion became helping other people around the world who are suffering from chronic pain or depression, anxiety, trauma of all types, people with mysterious illnesses where nothing shows up on medical tests.

Once I discovered there really is a way to heal and that it doesn't have to take 10 years of talking about it and changing, giving up all the foods you love or doing endless physical therapy, my passion became helping other people and showing them the quicker way, the easier softer way. That's why I call my method high speed healing. And my life really, I didn't realize it for many, many years, but everything that I've done in my life, that whole list that you read really was leading me to understand the power of energy and the energy field.

It was revealed to me many years ago in meditation. A series of experiences I had in meditation showed me that absolutely everything is made of energy, including our physical bodies and that if you were to look at our body under a high powered piece of equipment, you'd see it's not physical. It's vibrating particles of energy and light. This is the missing link, the missing secret key that's very unfamiliar to most people in terms of healing. And this energy field that surrounds the body is where it's holding the information that's showing up in the body. So with my work, I help people rapidly find where there are disturbances in their energy field that are affecting their body, mind, emotions, and spirit.

I help harmonize that as rapidly as possible and get people back on track. I first had to learn to do this with myself and every area of my life needed an overhaul. I was one of those people that sort of everything fell apart all at once. Physical health completely crashed and burned, my career, my marriage, my house, my everything fell apart, all together within a short period of time. Although it seemed like the worst year of my life, it actually was the turning point that led me to all the work I'm doing today.

[CHRIS]

So there was a reason for all that to happen?

[DEBORA]

There were lots of reasons, and they were hidden from my view. I had a lot of blind spots and that's what I find today. My job is really to help people clear away their blind spots, because there's nothing that happens by accident, including our physical health, our mental health, our emotional health. It doesn't happen by accident, but we're not doing it on purpose. We are just unconscious and have blind spots to certain habits that we have, habits of thinking, habits of emotion, habits of the choices we make every day. This is what's causing the problems but until we become aware of it, we can't change it. We live in a world that's very focused on the physical symptoms, the symptoms of whatever, the "problem or pain" is, we obsessed with the symptoms. And the symptoms are never the root cause of the problem.

[CHRIS]

So they're not the root cause. So your work is trying to find the root cause?

[DEBORA]

My work finds the root cause. Yes, cause is plural and helps people remove the blind spots that they had into seeing and knowing what those roots are and where they come from. It's a completely different understanding about how health and healing works, particularly physical health, because you and your listeners understand the power of mental health, but people don't recognize there's a direct connection between mental and emotional health and the physical health.

When people have physical pain, especially they become fixated on the symptoms and trying to cut it out or drug it out. That will not solve the problem. That's why so many people with chronic physical pain get stuck in a pattern and maybe they get a little bit of relief or maybe it will last a little while, but the pain typically comes back or they can't get rid of it at all. And the conventional ways of dealing with it, they only still treat symptoms. So when I work with people, I help them get down to the roots and it hasn't nothing to do with, typically it has nothing to do with the foods they're eating or that they're not doing physical therapy or that it's something in the body. The body expresses the invisible realm of thoughts and emotions and their energy field. That's what's showing up in the body, but they're looking in the wrong place to find the root.

[CHRIS]

So I guess, is that the difference between the high speed healing and other forms of energy healing?

[DEBORA]

Energy healing in general is a technique, different techniques that also focus on symptoms. Well, if you go to most energy healers, they look at the different chakras and they will work on individual chakras or they will often use a technique like Reiki where they touch the body in, there are 26 points where they touch the body and it's the same method used on every single person. What I offer is none of that. There's no touching ever, there's no need for even talking, although I do talk with people most of the time, but I don't need to talk with them to find the problem. I have become very, very sensitive in my ability to scan the energy field, which surrounds the body.

I don't need to touch the body. It has nothing, it affects the shocks but when I work on people, it's working on them mentally, emotionally, physically, energetically all at the same time. The difference is that my work is not a technique. It's a state of consciousness that I'm able to access and I bring in these very high cosmic frequencies. We know from science, from Einstein and others in quantum physics, that if a person is exposed to the right frequency their body will change. It must change. So I bring, I can find where there are disturbances in their energy field.

I feel them as if I'm touching something, but I'm not touching them and I'm able to bring in a wide bandwidth of healing frequencies and then the frequencies that they need will start to harmonize the disturbances in their energy field. If you think of these disturbances, like music, like an instrument that gets out of tune, I bring coherency is the scientific term, harmony is a good way to think of it. I tune their energy like you would tune a guitar or a piano that's out tune. And it changes the vibrational frequency of the energy field, which then shows up in the mind, the body and the emotions. Does that make sense?

[CHRIS]

Yes. I'm just thinking, how would a session go for someone, do you do distance as well, or is it just only ---

[DEBORA]

I'm doing distance only a live event. For the past six to seven years I've only worked virtually. I used to many years ago, had an office and work one on one and then I started doing groups and then I started doing virtual healing. It's much more efficient use of my time. Plus the beauty is someone can be at home, relaxed in their own bed or their own ---

[CHRIS]

That's my favorite kind of healing.

[DEBORA]

Exactly. You don't have to leave the house. Then after the session, you don't have to get up, get in a car drive in traffic and ruin the whole experience. So yes, I work virtually all over the world. I've been able to help people in over 160 countries today and it's very exciting. So the way the session typically goes, there's different ways I work with people. Like if they're in a group it's different than individually, but I still do work with individuals. And usually we talk briefly and then they just lie down in their bed or on their couch or in their Lazyboy chair and I start scanning their field and finding where the disturbances are and working on them virtually via the field.

I don't even have to see them in order to feel it. That's how sensitive I am. But I do get feedback when I see someone over Zoom. I get extra feedback that validates what I'm feeling. So oftentimes I'll do a Zoom call where it's video and then I work on them for quite a chunk of time. And every person's experience is different. I really want to stress that. Everyone's experience is different. So some people have what I call a very dramatic Hollywood moment and everything changes dramatically, instantly, overnight. Other people, it's a slower, quieter process, but there's a wide range of benefits. And after the silent portion of the session, I have a conversation and I get the feedback from the client as to what they experienced. I explain some of the things that they may think was "nothing" that actually was very meaningful, but they may not understand yet really happened.

So I explain what happened, what their feedback means, answer any questions and then what's very interesting and again, unique about my method, I've gone into a scientific research lab a few times. What we've discovered is that the healing results can actually, and often increase in the next day or two after the session. More can happen after the session because most things dissipate with time. We saw the results go up, let's see, the average decrease in pain and increase in energy, including emotional improvement, in the very first session in the science lab, it showed a 51% increase in improvement in the first session. But without anymore working on them, I never talked to them again, I never came into the lab, I didn't look at them, the client would go into the lab and get measured on day two.

We saw a 67% improvement on day two with no more sessions. What's really incredible that the people report, oh, no, no, I'm 99.999% better. So the equipment can't yet, isn't sophisticated enough yet to even measure the true results, because they're reporting what they've noticed and what they've experienced. And some people literally have physical, structural improvement that's visible to the naked eye and they know it. They can see it, their physical therapists see it. So the spine straightens, the discs aren't bulging, everything goes into alignment. People report having what feels like hands on chiropractic adjustments and I haven't even touched them or seen them. That's what's so remarkable.

[CHRIS]

Yes, that's incredible.

[DEBORA]

It is.

[CHRIS]

I'm just amazed that you've gone into a scientific lab for this and looking at evidence based modalities.

[DEBORA]

I did it for years, but I also really love the science. I have to say I didn't, I never loved science growing up. In fact, it was the class I always wanted to skip, but once I started, you know and I was doing this work for many years, and then I started to notice a lot of the new science coming out that's based on quantum in physics was explaining exactly what I'm doing. That's when I became fascinated by science. So I started diving into that and then I discovered the typical equipment that's out there doesn't measure it unless you find subtle energy research lab.

I started to research that and I wanted to see what was happening. If I had more funding, I would go in much more often because it's really quite remarkable. They also found that my method was the only method they've ever seen in 25 years of research where the practitioner benefited. I've known that forever. I always knew I felt better, and I had more energy after the session whereas most practitioners complain of being drained and tired and needing to rest. That's not the case with this. They saw measurable results in me that showed my energy increase. So that was exciting to find as well.

[CHRIS]

Was there any other research that you found? I know you said you like the science about energy healing and kind of pain.

[DEBORA]

Yes. My favorite research that talks more about and explains what I'm doing, my favorite is the late Dr. Valerie Hunt. She was a PhD from UCLA. She was the first person to ever photograph the field, the biofield and she developed, she figured out how to take stethoscope and camera film, and computers, and photograph the field around the body. Then she discovered this whole frequency piece and how particularly the emotions are emitting disturbance frequencies that she was able to measure and that show up in the field. And the field is communicating with the body.

So she could show photographs of how these emotions were either on their way to manifesting physically. Sometimes years before they ever showed up, physically, she could see all of this in the field. Then she could also show that if they've already manifested in the body. When you work with somebody, then they had emotional release and physical release and mental release that the photographs changed. So she could show my changes in the field, working in both directions, whether they had manifested not yet, or whether it had already manifested. Then she would work with people and then show of the changes.

So the field was really the key to both health and healing. And I love her work so much. Then I also love the work of Dr. Beverly Rubic. She's an author, scientist, also has a lab up in the bay area, and she's highly published with what's known as biofield science. She understands this area of healing as well, better than most. The other people are, if your listeners are looking for some understandable way to decipher this, I recommend Lynne McTaggart, who is a British researcher and scientist and author. Her book, it's called The Field is a layman's understandable explanation of the field that I'm talking about. I would highly recommend that to listeners as well.

[CHRIS]

We can include that in the show notes as well. So, yes, that's a lot. Oh my gosh, I'm just trying to process everything you're saying.

[DEBORA]

It's a lot, it's a big wake up call to people to realize this is not something I made up. This is an entire body of work, a field of information. It's a valid, oh and by the way, I should tell you the NIH, the National Institute of Health is the one that literally coined the term biofield. They did a study back in 1992 of energy healing, and they recognized this is real. They didn't come to conclusive evidence of course, but they also really thoroughly investigated in order to do that. But they said, this is real and there's a field around every living thing, including the physical body, that's holding energy and information. This information field is really, really important that people understand it's the key to health. So they coined the term biofield and that's where that whole area opened up.

It seems new, I realized to most people, but it's also, if you look at it's based on ancient wisdom as well, that's thousands of years old. Chinese medicine is just one example of how they understood the energy field. The yoga traditions talk about the invisible energy field. And both yoga, Chinese medicine and other indigenous cultures, they've known for centuries that our emotions affect our health, our mind, our state of mind affects our health, our body, mind, and spirit and emotions are all talking to each other. They are an interconnected body. They're a complex. We're not separate car parts. They've been studying this and talking about this in like all of Chinese medicine and acupuncture. It's all based on what I'm talking about here today,

[CHRIS]

Can I just summarize something real quick?

[DEBORA]

Sure.

[CHRIS]

I'm trying to understand, so let's say that somebody has anxiety and that you're saying that it would manifest in more of the energy field first?

[DEBORA]

Absolutely. I would say ---

[CHRIS]

Before it comes to the physical body, like a symptom?

[DEBORA]

Yes, I would say that anxiety or what we call anxiety is a pattern of thoughts and a pattern of emotions. And oftentimes it is emotions that, and both of these can be found in your energy field. They are, see, think about it, thoughts and emotions are invisible. They are the invisible realm, which is what the energy field is, is the precursor to anything that shows up physical. That's why it's actually more important. Then it shows up in the body, the body gives us feedback and we don't like how it feels and we've labeled it anxiety or depression or whatever, fibromyalgia, whatever we label it.

We give a label to a certain pattern that shows up in the body, but the body's giving us feedback. It's not the problem. It's actually the solution. It's giving us the message that we need to pay attention to. Then if we go but if we only try to treat it with a drug or a surgery or food, it often doesn't work because we haven't addressed the subtle thoughts and emotional patterns and habits that are lingering and they have to be addressed. Does that make sense before?

[CHRIS]

Yes, before you can heal. So how did you discover this? Was this just through practice and study and your own research?

[DEBORA]

No, it was all revealed to me one day that I was not expecting when I was sitting in meditation. And all of it, you talk about, oh my God, tying to digest a lot at once. I had the whole physical universe was revealed to me, I could see it, hear it, sense it, know it that everything was energy. My body, the walls, I saw the vibration of everything. I saw that my body, the walls were not physical. They were vibrating particles of light. I literally saw it for hours. I had a three to four hour meditation that just revealed all of this. I also intuitively knew that I was going to be okay. I was going to heal from my own stuff and ten I would be able to help others.

That this life force energy was the key to everything and I could feel it flowing through me and in particular flowing through my hands. And I started to have a series of experiences over the next year that just rocked my world and everything that I thought to be true. It just shook me to the core. It wasn't like, I just immediately jumped up and said, "Hey, here I am world. I'm here for healing." It took me a couple years of working on all the fears and doubts that I had about all of this, because I come from an allopathic medical family that believes in data. And I had no data. I had an inner experience, one after the other, after the other. So it was quite, it really took me quite a number of years.

That's why I went back to school. I started tiptoeing around it and before I ever came out publicly and I also started working on people to, you know I approached it like a scientist. I wanted to know, well, what is this? Is it consistent? Can I get results that are consistent over time? Am I sure it's benevolent and not going to cause any harm? That took quite a long time for me before I came out and said, here I am. It wasn't until I really discovered that people were getting dramatic healing results that I knew I couldn't, it would be selfish of me not to share it. I genuinely feel this is the next phase of our healthcare. We need a faster method. We live in the high speed world.

[CHRIS]

Absolutely.

[DEBORA]

So this was just a gift that I received from the universe to start sharing with people, to speed up the healing process. That's why I called it high speed healing.

[CHRIS]

I know we were talking before I hit record that some of the other modalities, I know I talked about pranic healing with you and Reiki because pranic healing, especially, I got away from it because it took too long for me to do healing for people. Really long protocol [crosstalk] It is nice, but yes, and I think that if there's something that's quicker but effective or more effective then yes, sign me up.

[DEBORA]

That's why I'm doing what I'm doing because I had tried, either experienced or studied or became a practitioner of, I made a list once, there were like 40 different methods that I looked into before I came public. I experienced as many methods as I could. And even in my own healing journey with my own pain and depression and anxiety and trauma that I had, I kept looking for solutions, but they were either so slow or they didn't work or they just weren't fast enough for me. I got very frustrated with how slow things took. So I wanted, once I went back to school and I became a hypnotherapist and started doing quite a few, I became a Reiki master. I was one of the first Reiki masters in Arizona in the 1980s. I became a Reiki master.

That was a long time ago when nobody even knew what Reiki was. And Reiki was the fastest form at that time. But fast forward to this past 10 years or so, it just was so slow and I never, ever, not once did I get a dramatic result like I get with high speed healing. I mean, I have people who have had 30 years of chronic pain, sometimes longer, and they've been diagnosed and told they had fibromyalgia or arthritis or they needed surgery, or they had chronic fatigue syndrome or they had thyroid issues or digestive issues.

I mean, the list goes on and on and on. They had insomnia for decades. Migraines are very common. When I worked with people using this, very often, not just occasionally, but very often in less than an hour in the very first session people were reporting, I am completely pain-free. I never saw that Chris, ever not once with any other method that I tried, including hypnosis.

[CHRIS]

I could see that. So I guess, would this kind of method, is there, like how many sessions would somebody have to have or is that dependent on their issue?

[DEBORA]

It does vary from person to person, but I found over time that the average person needs four sessions minimum before they can evaluate and that most people will notice changes right away in session 1, 2, 3. But in order to hold, see what I'm helping them do is interrupt their old patterns and establish a new pattern. So many people do have healing or some kind of result right away in the first session, but they may not hold it. So they'll dip back into their old patterns because they are contributing to these patterns and they don't realize it. In a perfect world I like people to do four to six sessions and then I also like to teach them some self care tools to change their habits of thought and to find the emotion that they're unaware of that are causing a lot of the problems as well. If I can do all three of those things, help them with the mind, the emotions and the energy field, there's a strong chance they're going to have permanent change.

[CHRIS]

That's why I wonder the long term, because I know Reiki, like I've always had to keep going back.

[DEBORA]

Exactly.

[CHRIS]

You know, the biggest run for me was like four months that I went to my one guy. He's great, but it's like, here we go again.

[DEBORA]

Well, that's again, that's why I developed my pain-free living program because I found out if I could get, if I could have a conversation with people, I will find why it keeps coming back. In every case it's usually related to a habit. They have a way of thinking, an incorrect belief system and, or the most important piece is the emotions. And most people have denied, suppressed, repressed emotions that they don't know they have and that that's what keeps bringing back the symptoms. I can usually help people find those if they don't come up on their own during the energy healing. During the high speed healing, oftentimes these emotions will come up and reveal themselves to my clients and release. Then what I want to do is teach them a self-care technique so that they can discover how they're going about their lives. And they're unaware of how they are stopping and suppressing and resisting these emotions because that's often why the pain will come back or the symptoms will come,

[CHRIS]

Oh, I never realized it that there could be like that kind of connection.

[DEBORA]

There's totally. That's one of the biggest reveals that I find. Now, let me also say, people are affected by habits as well, like being on a computer too long, the low vibrational frequencies of these EMFs. We're bombarded with them now, and it's getting worse with 5G. This is in effect as well. These are emitting frequencies that are harmful. So one of the ways we have to have is a way, and that's what high speed healing does, to clear the energy field so that it gets back in harmony. We can, we are affected by our diet. We're affected by the people we're around, the conversations we're having, the podcast we're listening to, the information we take in on a daily basis. Information comes in many different forms and it's affecting our health and causing ----

[CHRIS]

Even social media.

[DEBORA]

Oh my God, social media is one of the biggest culprits. Yes, absolutely. It is known, you know every time we spend hours on a smartphone scrolling, even if it's good, even if we're reading things that are helping us and making us feel good, we're getting a false dopamine hit. And people get addicted to this and it's why social media is designed to be an addict, become an addiction. They want you to be addicted to it.

[CHRIS]

Yes, exactly.

[DEBORA]

So then people become dependent on that for feeling good. Then when you put that phone down, the body has learned, well, I get my feel good endorphins from an outside source. So it stops producing its own as much. So we have to get people off of these false healers and get them back into their natural state and have that state harmonized and healthy and strong. That involves your energy field, your mind and your emotions without any devices.

[CHRIS]

I just had a question too, when you talk about the energy field, because I know, I've learned some about aura. Is that the same thing that you're talking about or is that something different?

[DEBORA]

The aura field is the energy and, but I want to also make clear that the aura field is only the field that surrounds the body. We actually live in a gigantic field that everyone is interconnected to. So my work goes way beyond the scope of just the aura field. We living in a field. When you look out at space, it's not empty. It's a gigantic field of vibrational frequency and information. And that's why I'm able to work virtually. That's why I'm able to work with people at a distance. It's why it's instantaneous, because we're going beyond just time and space. Thought and energy transfer is instantaneous via this gigantic field that we're all interconnected with each other in. So it's also how I'm able to bring in such amazing healing frequencies, because I'm able to access the cosmic consciousness. This is way beyond just the physical body and the little field that surrounds each body.

[CHRIS]

That makes sense. I think it goes back to with the inter-connectness I think of yoga too.

[DEBORA]

It's exactly what the yogis were talking about. The yogis said they are subtle sheaths, they called them, around the body and that there was emotional, mental, physical, and there was even a bliss body. The bliss body is what's accessing this cosmic consciousness and many people that I work on say to me, "Wow, Debora, I actually felt bliss." The reason for that is I'm able to help them shift. Their field is literally reflecting and their body reflects their state of consciousness and I'm able to help people raise the consciousness to the level of the bliss body, not always right away, but often, sometimes right away and down the road. It's the state of consciousness that we're expressing. So we want to change the vibrational rate of that and when we do, we have a whole new experience. Like think of like your cable TV. If you change the frequency, you get a new channel and you watch a completely different show. That's what I'm helping people access, a new channel.

[CHRIS]

So what if someone has a condition, but they're not in pain, they don't have symptoms of the disease? Would it still be beneficial?

[DEBORA]

That's when it gets really fun, Chris. So once we get rid of enough pain and enough disease symptoms, what this will do is help people access increased creativity, productivity, focus, memory, concentration. And what I love is their intuition starts to really increase and expand and blossom. I have people report, "God, it's been fascinating." I've had people write books. I have one client who became, who wrote five bestselling books after I worked with her. She said, they just flowed out of her. There was no effort involved.

I've had people come up with inventions, with businesses where they, in their session, they got the business name. They saw a product. They got the name of the product. I mean, it's wild what happens. Some people, I've had many, many people, including children start to paint overnight. They have the urge to paint or do ceramics. I've had people in, oh, this is really fun in, it seems to increase athletic ability because ---

[CHRIS]

I could use some of that.

[DEBORA]

Yes, we all could, but what this is doing is it appears to be accessing the right side of the brain. This is one of the reasons I want to go back in the research lab. I want to use a brain equipment to see what's happening in the brain. I'm certain it's increasing and accessing the right side of the brain, which is the side of the brain that is responsible for the creativity. The feelings are flow state where we're just more in the flow of life instead of that left brain linear, analytical way of experiencing things. That's why we're get getting all these amazing results.

[CHRIS]

So do you train practitioners in this, or is this something that you have as a gift?

[DEBORA]

I do. I've trained close to 300 practitioners now. I usually do a training once, sometimes twice a year. So anyone who's interested can email us or go to the website. It's application, so you have to fill out the practitioner questionnaire and that will come to me and I'll review it and we'll make sure it's a good fit. Right now it's just a wait list until we determine when the next training will be in, what are we in? In 2022. So yes, if anyone who's interested, please feel free to reach out.

[CHRIS]

Is that online training or how does that work?

[DEBORA]

Oh, it's a Zoom training. It's video and audio and it's interactive and highly experiential. Before we are halfway through the training, the attendees will be working on and getting results with adults, children, animals, and with each other, doing learning distance healing. So it's highly experiential and they will see that they're getting results. Even before their mind can wrap their head around what's actually they'll be getting results.

[CHRIS]

So what's a takeaway you could share today that could help listeners that might just be starting their holistic journey?

[DEBORA]

It's hard to narrow it to one. So let me say this, number one, if you happen to be suffering from any type of pain or symptom of disease, don't stop short of your miracle. Just take the next indicated step. Even though you may be skeptical of hearing this type of thing, don't judge it and decide, well, that's not for me. Do something because you may discover there really is a solution. You may not see the full picture of what that solution is yet but I would say just don't give up hope because the world is changing very rapidly right now. You want to do something today that your future self will thank you for.

Number two, I would say really, really important that you take quiet time every day to listen to what your body, mind and spirit are telling you, because your answers are inside of you. Now you may have blind spots and need the help of a mentor or guide like myself or someone else, but you want to listen. Don't try to medicate them away or deny them or suppress them. Your answers come from your pain, from your symptoms. So take time every day, quiet time, preferably in nature and listen deeply and develop a relationship with your inner self.

This is the most important relationship you will ever, ever have. You'll find you have an inner GPS just like I do. So either learn to meditate, take quiet time, go in nature, nature emits a frequency that you need to better listen and get your own inner guidance. So no matter what you do, don't give up, take quiet time every day, spend time in nature, develop a personal practice that will help you develop your inner relationship.

[CHRIS]

Thank you for coming on today. I really appreciate it, Debora.

[DEBORA]

Oh my God, thank you for having me. I'm so honored and I hope that this has been helpful and will help a lot move forward. Thank you so much for helping me get the word out.

[CHRIS]

I feel like we could keep for a long time.

[DEBORA]

Bring me back.

[CHRIS]

I know, we'll have to do another one. But I want to thank my listeners as well for tuning into today's episode. Are you looking for a supportive holistic community? Come join my Facebook group, the holistic counseling and self care group, where you gain support connection and more resources on adding holistic practices personally and professionally. This is Chris McDonald's sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time, take care.

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In my Becoming a Holistic Counselor course, you'll get tips for adding integrative care into your practice, what training you need and don't, and the know-how to attract your ideal holistic clients. If this sounds like the direction you are headed, sign up at holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.