Episode 42 How Your Conscience is the Key To Unlock Limitless Wisdom and Creativity, with Leonard Perlmutter

Dec 22, 2021

Why is detachment important for making intentional decisions? What is true willpower? What do you know about the ego?

MEET LEONARD PERLMUTTER

Leonard Perlmutter(Ram Lev) is the founder and director of the American Meditation Institute and is the originator of National Conscience Month. He studied in Rishikesh, India under Swami Rama of the Himalayas. Leonard has presented informative Yoga Science and meditation workshops at the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, The New York Times Forum on Yoga, the Washington University Medical School, the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and has served on the faculties of the New England Institute of Ayurvedic Medicine and the International Himalayan Yoga Teachers Association.

Leonard is the author and editor of Transformation: The Journal of Yoga Science as Holistic Mind/Body Medicine. His Heart and Science of Yoga® course curriculum has been certified by the Albany Medical College, the American Medical Association, and the American Nurses Association for continuing medical education credit.

Visit the American Meditation Institute website. Connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and LinkedIn.

Read Leonard Perlmutter’s book, Your Conscience.

IN THIS PODCAST:

  • Meditation to unlock your mind
  • True willpower
  • The ego
  • Your conscience

Meditation to unlock your mind

Meditation helps a person to become detached.

What that means is by meditating regularly, every day, we learn how to create a space between stimulus and response. In that space between stimulus and response, we find the freedom of action so that we can redirect our attention towards the conscious to determine the true thought to think, word to speak, and action to take. (Leonard Perlmutter)

By becoming detached, a person is no longer bound to their emotions and their immediate reactions.

Through detachment, people can pause and observe something that happens around them instead of immediately reacting.

Meditation teaches detachment, and detachment enables pause, and pause allows people to sit in their peace and decide from a place of stability and calmness, instead of mindlessness and fear-based reactions.

True willpower

From taking intentional action from the pause, people can direct their energy and focus on the things that they can see genuinely do matter.

Therefore, they can practice true willpower, because they can recognize the wise and unwise decisions and are willing to wait or work to make the best and truest decision happen in reality.

The more that I do these types of experiments and follow the wisdom of the conscious; I am continuously building the muscles of willpower to do what is to be done when it is to be done, and not do what is not to be done when it is not to be done. (Leonard Perlmutter)

The training of meditation can, therefore, be used in every aspect of daily life. The teachings of meditation can be superimposed in many ways, and we can rely on these teachings when making any decision.

The ego

The ego is hardwired to the reptilian brain, and the reptilian brain is totally invested in self-preservation, as is the ego … it means that both the ego and the reptilian brain are terribly fearful of annihilation … from the yoga-science perspective, death is merely change and growth. (Leonard Perlmutter)

The ego has a limited perspective and so it cannot perceive anything other than what is known to be good. It wants to remain with what it knows, because it fears change, even if what it knows is overly difficult or painful.

The ego is often in wrong, but it never doubts. It defines every relationship or life event as either pleasant or unpleasant, and it only wants to serve the pleasant, therefore opposing everything that is unpleasant.

It is important to remember that not everything that is pleasant is good for us, and often the things that are unpleasant are good for us. Therefore, do not always blindly accept the ego’s recommendation on things, because then you will be the one who suffers.

Your conscience

In order to start making shifts, you need to parent your unconscious mind and the ego. Teach them to be quieter and listen to the conscience, the seat of your wisdom and creativity.

For the sake of an experiment, make your thoughts, words, and deeds come from your conscience to experience a different way of being.

Everything that we need to make a decision about should have the ego senses and the unconscious mind work though an experiment with the conscience, and it’s up to me not to give the ego, senses, and unconscious mind too much too soon. (Leonard Perlmutter)

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Resources Mentioned And Useful Links:

BOOK | Leonard Perlmutter – Your Conscience: The Key to Unlock Limitless Wisdom and

Creativity and Solve All of Life’s Challenges

BOOK | Leonard Perlmutter – Transformation: The Journal of Yoga Science as Holistic

Mind/Body Medicine

Visit the American Meditation Institute website. Connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and LinkedIn.

The Life Changing Impact of Breathwork & Meditation with Kushal Choksi

Visit www.holisticcounselingpodcast.com for a free email course for Becoming a

Holistic Counselor

Practice of the Practice Podcast Network

Transcript

[CHRIS McDONALD]

The Holistic Counseling Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Behind the Bite, Full of Shift and Impact Driven Leader, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, where you discover diverse wellness modalities, advice on growing your integrative practice, and grow confidence in being your unique self. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I'm so glad you're here for the journey. .

Welcome to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I am really excited for today's guest Leonard Perlmutter. He has incredible depth of wisdom to bring to you about meditation and your conscience. He is founder and director of American Meditation Institute in Aval park, New York. He is the originator of National Conscience Month. He studied in India under Swami Rama of the Himalayas whose lab studies at the Menger Institute demonstrated that blood pressure, heart rate and that autonomic nervous system can be voluntarily controlled, which sounds so cool. He is the author and editor of Transformation: The Journal of Yoga Science as Holistic Mind/Body Medicine and his Heart and Science of Yoga® course curriculum. He is author of the book, Your Conscience: The Key to Unlock Limitless Wisdom and Creativity and Solve All of Life's Challenges. Welcome to the podcast, Leonard.

[LEONARD PERLMUTTER]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

[CHRIS]

Yes, I'm so glad that you could be here. As we talked before we hit record, I'm so excited that you're here because this is the Holistic Counseling Podcast. It sounds like what you do at the institute is a lot of holistic strategies and a lot of teaching.

[LEONARD]

Well, that's what we do. We're holistic organisms and we're pretty darn sophisticated holistic organisms. We really have not been taught that much about what possibilities exist for us to be able to enhance the health and wellbeing of these mind, body sense complexes.

[CHRIS]

Yes, exactly. We can't just focus just on, in our thoughts as holistic counselors. We can't just focus on the mind. We have to look at the whole person.

[LEONARD]

Sure. I often am inspired by William Oslo's quote from over a hundred years ago. Oslo was one of the founding board members of John's Hopkins. He was the individual who brought medical students out the classroom and into clinical settings. And Oslo said, don't ask what kind of disease the patient has. Ask, what kind of patient has the disease. So that echoes what we in, yoga science that all the body is in the mind, the body is a projection of the mind. So if the mind is in conflict, so too, will the consciousness of the be in body conflict.

[CHRIS]

That's food for thought to think about that and a different way of perceiving the mind and the body.

[LEONARD]

Right.

[CHRIS]

So what is AMI meditation? Because as I looked on your website, I saw that you teach a lot of this meditation in classes and courses. Can you share more with my listeners of what that is?

[LEONARD]

It is a mantra based meditation and everything that we do teach at AMI, the American Meditation Institute, everything that we teach comes from a ancient lineage called Barty, which is known as the lovers of knowledge, the lovers of wisdom. It's the oldest continuous meditation and spiritual lineage in the world. It is the origin of every single religion. Every single spiritual tradition has come from this knowledge that we today are shepherding and reinterpreting for these modern times. So it's a classical mantra meditation that is taught and it is critically important in being physically fit, being mentally well.

The practice of meditation itself is a dire necessity. It teaches us how to cultivate one point at attention. Of course we know, although we don't always say that multitasking is impossible, we sort of laugh it off. You know, the culture, my boss wants me to be able to multitask. So in order to provide the delusion that we're multitasking, what has to happen? Well, hormones have to surge. Adrenaline is constantly flowing through our entire physiology so that the mind can go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth very quickly between two objects. Now that provides the delusion that we're multitasking, but in effect we're not. We're really only looking at one thing at a time. Anything else is impossible.

[CHRIS]

I never heard that, the delusion of multitasking.

[LEONARD]

Yes. So what exactly happens when all of this hormonal soup is poisoning our entire physiology? Well, the first thing that happens is even though we appear to be multitasking, actually what's happening is that my immune system is being depressed. Not only my immune system, but also my mind is being depressed. So I'm really living in a dark cloud most every day and my mind is being depressed as well as my immune system. So what meditation does, it's teaches us how to know the benefits of a one pointed mind. A one pointed mind helps us to become detached.

What that means is that by meditating all the time, regularly, every day, that we learn how to create a space between stimulus and in response. In that space between stimulus and response, we find the freedom of action so that we can redirect our attention toward the conscience to determine what is the thought to think, the word to speak and the action to take wow in this moment, that will enable me to fulfill the purpose of life without pain.

So meditation teaches me one point to attention, which in turn creates a space for me, a detachment from stimulus so I can make an enlightened choice based on this super conscious wisdom reflected by the conscience. And the more that I do these types of experiments and follow the wisdom of the conscience, I'm continuously building the muscles of willpower to do what's to be done when it's to be done and not do what's not to be done when it's not to be done.

So, even though we receive this training and meditation, gosh, we can take all those tools into the rough and tumble of every day. Every relationship we can use those tools of one point at attention, detachment, super conscious wisdom and willpower to do what's to be done and not do what's not to be done. In my experience that has motivated me to change my diet, to make the body a lot more healthy and lot more flexible, to help the mind become more creative and more flexible, and to provide me more energy for all the duties and responsibilities that face me as a human being in America, in the 21st century.

[CHRIS]

That is an amazing amount of benefits. I can see how so much of meditation can impact all the choices we make every day in our lives.

[LEONARD]

Yes, it has that capacity to affect every choice. So every choice is really an experiment in the truth reflected by the conscience if we so choose to do the experiment.

[CHRIS]

If we choose, if we make that decision to do that.

[LEONARD]

It's all about desire, isn't it, Chris? It's all about desire. If we don't have the desire, we're not going to do it. It doesn't matter what it is. Desire itself is neither good, nor bad. It's simply what, it's the fuel for action, no desire, no action. With the desire, yes, something can be accomplished.

[CHRIS]

So why is it hard for people to follow their conscience? Is there any way to make it any easier?

[LEONARD]

That answer lies in an understanding of the functions of the mind. So there are four functions of the mind. Three of them are rather contentious and those three are the ego, the senses, and the unconscious mind. The fourth function is the conscience. So let me take them one by one and explain what they are and what they do because the mind moves first and then the body follows with an action. And of course, following the action is always what ,a consequence that can bring us the health, the happiness, the loving, nurturing, creative relationships and security that we deeply desire or will delay the process and instead we will be in pain.

So the ego itself, the ego is actually hardwired to the reptilian brain and the reptilian brain is totally invested in self preservation as is the ego. What does that mean? It means that both the ego and the reptilian brain are terribly fearful of annihilation, terribly fearful of death, being the end of everything, which of course it is not from a yoga science perspective. Death is merely change and growth. But because the ego has such a limited perspective, it's recommendations concerning what's to be done. What's not to be done are often wrong. Even know the ego as we pretty well know is often wrong, but never in doubt.

And the ego, because it is hardwired to the reptilian brain and both of them are invested in self preservation of the form, this mind, body sense complex it becomes problematic. So the ego always defines every relationship for us as either pleasant or unpleasant. The ego only wants to serve the pleasant and it defines the pleasant as being good. Whereas things that appear to the ego limited perspective are unpleasant the ego defines those things as bad. So the ego only supports that, which is pleasant and opposes everything that is unpleasant, but isn't it our experience that, that, which appears as isn't always good for us and that what appears as unpleasant isn't always bad for us?

[CHRIS]

Life is not that simplistic, right?

[LEONARD]

That's right. So if I just accept the egos recommendation for so many things, without examining it and experimenting with it, then I am the one who is going to be in pain. So that's the ego, limited perspective, but I have to be honest and mention that we all need an ego. We all need a healthy ego. And right now I need a healthy ego to be able to have this conversation with you, Chris, as do you to have the conversation with me. We need a healthy ego to drive the automobile or the truck. So ego is not always wrong, but it has faulty concepts because there's, the go has such a limited perspective. That's the ego.

[CHRIS]

So tied to our survival.

[LEONARD]

That's right. The ego can only advise, cannot make a decision. The ego can only advise. Then there's the census senses. Similar can only advise, cannot make a decision as regards to what's be done and what's not to be done. So the senses, sight, smell, taste, hearing, touch, those take our creative energy. The mind itself projects our creative energy through our eyes and our nostrils and our mouth, our ears, our hands and our feet to look and smell and taste and listen, and touch and bring back information into our consciousness, into our awareness in search of what, objects and relationships that are going to bring me happiness and security and health.

Here's the problem. The senses like the ego are only interested in that which is pleasant, not unpleasant. So this senses too only have a limited perspective, again, often wrong, but never in doubt. The senses waste a tremendous, tremendous amount of our creative energy chasing rainbows that never appear. And even if there is a passing pleasure that is experienced, it's not the lasting joy that we are looking for.

[CHRIS]

That's temporary,

[LEONARD]

It's all temporary. It's very ephemeral. It never lasts. It's a little bit like the Doppler effect, you know, the train is coming, coming, coming. We hear it, hear it coming, coming, coming and then all of a sudden it's going, going, going. It's never here now. So it's the use of the senses, which I believe have become addicted to spending our creative energy. So much of our creative energy goes out through our eyes and our nostrils and our mouth, our ears, our hands and our feet. It's a little bit analogous to squeezing a tube of toothpaste. So if I squeeze a tube of toothpaste, oh, the toothpaste easily comes out, but impossible to put back into the tube.

Same with our creative energy. Once the mind projects through these addictive senses, our creative energy, we can't get it back. Yet we still have all these duties and responsibilities that are calling for more creative energy to be able to solve the issues that are unresolved. So that's the senses. Now the unconscious mind is the repository of all of our merits and demerits. It is everything that you and I deem essential to self-preservation. All of those memories, good and bad pleasant and unpleasant, all of our imaginations for the future, all are stored in the unconscious mind because somewhere we believe they're essential to self preservation.

So the ego, the sense, and the unconscious mind all have limited perspectives. Some of those perspectives are valid with the senses. I mean, life is to be enjoyed. I like and enjoy without guilt, a wonderfully tasting meal. The unconscious mind is not always wrong. It has a limited perspective, sometimes appropriate, but a lot of times what's stored on the hard drive of our minds, this unconscious mind are faulty concepts. And where do we pick up these faulty concepts? Oh, some I got from my mom, some I got from my dad, some I got from grandma. Some I got from grandpa. Some I got from my siblings or my friends at school or teachers or celebrities or politicians, or just the culture in general.

So the ego senses an unconscious mind. They're sort of like a voting block very often. I call them the three Amigos, often wrong, but never in doubt. Then you have the conscience. The conscience is the only function of the mind that can discriminate, determine, judge and decide, wow, that was a game changer for me when I learned that and I practiced it. The conscience is the only decision maker for every action we have ever taken and will be the only decision maker for every action we ever do take.

The ego senses and unconscious mind are only advisers. So if we cannot get buy-in from the ego senses and unconscious mind, they're so loud and so pushy, the conscience cannot do what it does best. That is the conscience, which acts as a mirror, has the capacity, the sole capacity to reflect perfect wisdom from the super conscious portion of the mind. That's right. I said, super conscious portion of the mind. That's not poetry. It's not a metaphor. It's the same portion of the mind where Paul McCartney, here's beautiful melodies, where Albert Einstein saw mathematical equations and we can tap into that.

[CHRIS]

That is the creative part of us?

[LEONARD]

That's right. That is the truth that comes to us because the conscience can access the super conscious wisdom and can reflect it into our conscious mind so that we can consciously be aware of this intuitive wisdom that is at the core of our being at the center of consciousness to be used to determine the thoughts, the words, and the actions that we take. Why? So that we can be led for our highest and greatest good with purpose and with contentment. But our culture does not understand that. We have never learned that in school. The only thing that we really have been taught in school is how to memorize and recite so that we can get a certificate, a diploma so that we can get a better paying job.

But still the ego senses and unconscious mind are a very disruptive force in the mind. When they're so loud. So pushy, all that the conscience can do is rubber stamp the loudest voice. So the choice is made by the conscience. The conscience is the only function of the mind that can make the choice, but instead of being able to reflect perfect wisdom from the center of consciousness, from the super conscious portion of the mind, the conscience is simply relegated to rubber stamping, the limited often faulty concepts of the ego senses and unconscious mind, and we experience pain.

[CHRIS]

So it's almost blocking out the super conscious.

[LEONARD]

It is. Definitely we, we can't have access to that. What we need to do is to become the parent of our own mind. We have to parent the ego, senses and unconscious mind. We have to sit them down around the kitchen table and say, "Look, this is not working as well as it can." We need to listen quietly to the conscience and begin to support slowly, slowly, this super conscious wisdom reflected by the conscience and make it our thoughts, words, and deeds, just for the sake of an experiment to experience a different way of being. That's what this book, Your Conscience teaches people how to do.

[CHRIS]

So what kind of problems can be solved by relying on our conscience?

[LEONARD]

Everyone.

[CHRIS]

Everyone?

[LEONARD]

Everyone. First of all, let me say Chris, I don't believe that we have problems.

[CHRIS]

Oh, okay.

[LEONARD]

Because if I say that I have a problem, that's a heavy word. If I bring that word into my awareness and I repeat, I have a problem, I have a problem, I have a problem, that word is so heavy that all of my creativity seems to be locked down. I seem to be paralyzed by a word. So I no longer use the word problem. I use a synonym. I say, it's a situation. Now, when I bring that word into my awareness and I listen to it, situation, situation, situation, I have a situation, well that's much lighter and it doesn't block my creative energies. In fact, it motivates me to be more creative in the moment to resolve this situation.

But to answer your first question, the conscience can help us with every situation. But what people have to understand is when we're starting this new type of philosophy of life, we can't take on too much, too soon. We're just not ready. The ego, the senses and the unconscious mind are going to dig in and push back, whereas as their parent, we're looking for a pleasant experience to give them. We're looking for something that will be pleasurable to them so that they can expand their awareness that by listening to the conscience, it's not always going to mean a death to their identity and their power. So let's say, just for the sake of argument, we just finished a very nice dinner and the question before the mind is, are we going to brush our teeth? So now I'm the parent. So I'll be the moderator, and what I do is I invite the ego, the senses, the unconscious mind, and the conscience to all sit around together around the kitchen table with me, the parent, to discuss, are we going to brush our teeth? Are we not going to brush our teeth after this meal?

So as the parent, I first call on the ego. What is your opinion? Should we do it or should we not do it? The ego says something to the effect, "That sounds terribly unpleasant. I'm against it." "Okay." I say, "Thank you very much. Take a seat. Now I'll call on the senses. What do you say?" "Well, if I'm really honest with you, and I want to be honest with you," the senses say, they say, "It was a great meal, but it was an exquisite dessert. We had apple pie tonight and that's my favorite. So I don't want to brush the teeth. I want a second piece of apple pie." "Okay. Well, thank you very much for your limited perspective. Take your seat."

I now call now on the unconscious. "What is your perspective here?" The unconscious says something to the effect, "Well, I'm with the other two. I'm with the ego and the senses." So a lot of times we form a vote and I'm against it. "Okay, well thank you very much. Now if you'll all be quiet, just for a moment, just for the sake of an experiment, I'm going to call on the conscious." And in that quiet, the conscious will have the ability to reflect perfect wisdom from the super conscious portion of the mind and the conscience will share it with us. So that'll be interesting for everybody. "So conscience, would you please make a presentation?" The conscience is willing to do that and the conscience says something to the effect that, "Well, we all know that this life that we're living is not a sprint. It's a marathon and for a marathon, we need many things. We need healthy, strong teeth. We need healthy, strong gums. We need a healthy, strong immune system. The super conscience wisdom is telling me and telling you that if we can just take a time out for two minutes, go to the bathroom, brush the teeth, we'll have stronger teeth, stronger gums, and a stronger immune system. So I invite each of you now to go into the bathroom, we'll all go together and brush the teeth and then come back to the kitchen table and discuss the experience that we had."

So the ego, senses unconscious mind and conscience along with me, the parent, we all go into the bathroom. We brush the teeth, we come back to the kitchen table and then as their parent, I call on each of them for a little summary. "Ego, what was your opinion about brushing the teeth?" Well, the ego says, "It wasn't really quite as bad as I had feared. Usually with a new habit, I'm afraid that I might be annihilated. It might be a death, but I'm still here. So 'm tickled. So it wasn't so bad. I would say it wasn't so bad." "Thank you. And now senses, what was your experience?" The senses say, "I was tickled when the tongue rolled over my teeth. I didn't feel that mossy feeling that I do when I don't brush my teeth. So I like that it felt great. So I had a very pleasant experience that I rarely ever do."

"Thank you senses. And now the unconscious mind, what do you say?" "Wasn't so bad. Wasn't so bad." "Thank you." So what have we just done? We've just done an experiment and the ego, the senses and the unconscious mind had a pleasant experience. So these children of mind who really have been traumatized their whole life by limited perspectives have now just had what, a pleasant experience. I can build on that as their parent, without threatening them.

[CHRIS]

So you mentioned experiments.

[LEONARD]

They trust me and they trust me more today than they did yesterday.

[CHRIS]

Because this was an experiment you said, right?

[LEONARD]

This was an experiment.

[CHRIS]

So you say to try that with other things like attention, even ---

[LEONARD]

Everything

[CHRIS]

In your bath, your sleep?

[LEONARD]

Everything that we need to make a decision about should have the ego, senses and unconscious mind work through an experiment with the conscience. And it's up to me not to give the ego, senses and unconscious mind too much too soon. You don't want to provide them an experiment that engages all sorts of emotional triggers. No brainers. It's 10 o'clock at night, a coffee commercial comes on TV and the ego, senses and unconscious mind are ready to go right into the kitchen, have a cup of coffee, a little sugar, a little half and half and another piece of apple pie.

But at 10 o'clock at night, the conscience is going to say in its presentation, "10 o'clock at night is not an appropriate time to have all that caffeine. We all need a good night's sleep. We have a big meeting tomorrow at work. If you want to talk about whether we're going to have a cup of coffee or not, let's have that conversation at eight o'clock tomorrow morning, but let's experiment and sacrifice the desire right now and just see what happens." My experiences, I have felt better physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, so much so that I began teaching it. And now I've written this book, Your Conscience, so that everybody who can hear this message can begin to experiment for themselves so that they can know the truth for themselves as opposed to simply believing in hearsay of other people's.

[CHRIS]

Or just doing it because you say this is good. It's really trying. And I guess I'm confused, so is the conscience, is that the same thing as intuition or is intuition different?

[LEONARD]

Our conscience reflects super conscious wisdom, which is our intuition.

[CHRIS]

Oh, okay. So it is part of that super conscious?

[LEONARD]

Yes, part of the super conscious mind. The super conscious mind is an intuitive library of wisdom concerning what's to be done and what's not to be done, what's to be said, and what's not to be said, what's to be thought and what's not to be thought.

[CHRIS]

So I know you mentioned yoga science and I've not heard yoga science together as two. Usually you just hear them separate. So what is the practical applications for today's world?

[LEONARD]

Oh, well I think it's very promising. It's very promising. It provides us a template for experimenting scientifically with every thought, every word and every action. Where's the laboratory for that experimentation? Oh, the laboratory is our own mind, body, sense complex. It's an internal experiment that I am constantly making every moment of every day. I am the beneficiary of that because it helps me help the ego, senses and unconscious mind change the software of my own mind, much of which is faulty.

[CHRIS]

That's helpful too, to think of it as software and changing it out.

[LEONARD]

We do it with the computer, but not your mind. We carry all these viruses and faulty concepts In our mind. Why? We need an update, we need a new software package.

[CHRIS]

I think that would be helpful to talk to clients about that too, that we work with.

[LEONARD]

Yes. And whose software package am I using? An amalgamation of all these different people that I've met Probably didn't work for them either.

[CHRIS]

Right? How does meditation fit into all this then?

[LEONARD]

Well, as I mentioned up front, meditation provides us the tools to focus the mind at only one object and to create a space between stimulus and response. That space between stimulus and response provides me the freedom to check with the conscience and to parent the ego, senses and unconscious mind to make that happen. That's what meditation does. It provides me those tools and I can employ those tools in the midst of every relationship and every experiment that I do throughout the day.

People ask me, how long do you meditate? The truth is in one form or another I meditate all day long. It's either seated silent meditation or it's meditation in action, but both do one thing, that's the same. When I'm meditating or meditating in action, I'm basing my outer actions on my inner wisdom. That's what I call the bridge of yoga or the bridge of Christianity or the bridge of Judaism or the bridge of Buddhism or the bridge of Islam. It doesn't matter what you call it, but we all need a philosophical and a scientific bridge that encourages us in every relationship, that requires an action, that brings a better consequence to base those actions, thoughts, words, and deeds on our own inner, super conscious wisdom.

[CHRIS]

I would think that tapping into that super conscious wisdom as mental health therapists that could really help you to be more effective with clients.

[LEONARD]

Oh my gosh.

[CHRIS]

That would be insane.

[LEONARD]

And it's, first and foremost, it's about purifying our own instrument as therapists, but by purifying my own instrument, my own mind as a therapist, I can see things as they appear, I can see things as they are not just as they appear. I'm not dealing with just appearances. I can see deeper. I can see the mind of that person that I am here to help. I become a much better therapist by purifying my own instrument, not just memorizing something and applying it. I become very creative, very intuitive. I become an intuitive healer and I have confidence in it because I've been doing experiments with myself and I feel better.

[CHRIS]

And practicing

[LEONARD]

Right.

[CHRIS]

So it seems like really, once you integrate this too, this concept, that's really going to help you to be able to teach others to be, I guess you said purified, purifying your instrument.

[LEONARD]

Yes.

[CHRIS]

To be most effective. So what's a takeaway you could share today that could help listeners who might be just starting their holistic journey?

[LEONARD]

Well, the only advice that I have is not to believe anything I've said today. That's right. I don't want you to believe anything I say. I want you to put on one of those doubting Thomas hats and be a doubter, be a good scientist, because all scientists are doubters and they need to work through an experiment to find the truth for themselves. So even though I'm asking you not to believe me, I am encouraging you to do the experiment in your own life, in the constellation of your own relationships. That is the only way that you will know the truth and you will know that you know and that's the freedom that will set you free.

[CHRIS]

Perfect. Thank you for that.

[LEONARD]

Thank you.

[CHRIS]

What's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you and your book?

[LEONARD]

Well, we have two websites. One is for the book. It's a new website, yourconscience.org, yourconscience.org, tells you lots of information about the book and where to get it. Of course you can get it anywhere, all the traditional places, either online or at bookstores. Then besides yourconscience.org, the American meditation Institute, where I teach and offer all of my courses can be reached@ at americanmeditation.org, americanmeditation.org.

[CHRIS]

I'll put that in the show notes as well so you can access that.

[LEONARD]

If people go onto that website, americanmeditation.org on the homepage, if you look about two thirds of the way down the homepage for Sunday Guided Meditation, every Sunday from 9:30 to 11:00 Eastern time, every Sunday, 9:30 to 11:00 AM Eastern time, I do a guided meditation and conversation, very similar to what you and I Chris have been doing today.

[CHRIS]

Excellent.

[LEONARD]

So right there is a link. It's free.

[CHRIS]

It's free.

[LEONARD]

Every Sunday.

[CHRIS]

Very good. Well, I appreciate you coming on the podcast, Leonard. This has been very enlightening.

[LEONARD]

Well, I really deeply appreciate the invitation.

[CHRIS]

I want to send out a big thank you to my listeners for tuning into today's episode. And don't forget to subscribe, rate and review wherever you get your podcast. This is Chris McDonald, sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time.

If you're loving the show, will you rate review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform? We just started this and that helps other people find this show. Also, if you're feeling uncertain about your modalities and you want to build your confidence to be your unique self, why don't you to join my free email course, Becoming a Holistic Counselor over at holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

In my Becoming a Holistic Counselor course, you'll get tips for adding integrative care into your practice, what training you need and don't, and the know-how to attract your ideal holistic clients. If this sounds like the direction you are headed, sign up at holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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