Episode 41 The Life Changing Impact of Breathwork & Meditation with Kushal Choksi

[CHRIS]

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Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, where you discover diverse wellness modalities, advice on growing your integrative practice, and grow confidence in being your unique self. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I'm so glad you're here for the journey. .

Welcome back to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. So glad you can join me today. I have a very inspirational story from today's guest that is unlike anyone else I've ever interviewed on this podcast. Kushal Choksi is an author, entrepreneur and chocolatier and once upon a time used to be a Wall Street trainer. He and his wife run Elements Truffles, a New York based artisanal chocolate company built on the values of Ayurveda, sustainability, giving back, and ethical trade. Kushal is a trainer of personal development, meditation, wellness, and leadership programs for the art of living foundation. He has taught secrets of breathwork and meditation to thousands across the US, Europe and Asia. He serves on the US board of the International Association for Human Values. He's releasing a new book, October 15th called On a Wing and a Prayer: Spirituality for the Reluctant, the Curious and the Seeker. Welcome to the podcast, Kushal.

[KUSHAL CHOKS]

Thank you, Chris. I'm so glad to be here.

[CHRIS]

Can you share with my listeners a little bit more about yourself and your work?

[KUSHAL]

Certainly. I believe you already introduced me.

[CHRIS]

I know I did a lot.

[KUSHAL]

A very generous introduction, but to talk about the book, it is a very brutally honest account of my journey inwards, after having survived the 9/11 attacks and then I began questioning that there had to be a little more to life than just chasing Wall Street bonuses and wanting to run up the corporate ladder as fast as I could. That whole event, the 9/11 event kind of woke me up and beckoned me to ask if there was more to life than what met the eye. That got me started down the path of learning breathwork and meditation, albeit quite reluctantly because I believed at that point that meditation was anti vision or breath work or something, a pursuit for retirees, something you do when you have lots of time and you're done with all your worldly duties, that's when you meditate.

Well, I was wrong, I was so wrong. What I learned with my breathwork and meditation practice, I learned this very, very beautiful transformational technique called sky breath. That changed my life. That changed the way I thought, that changed the way I showed up and all my doubts, all my questions, all my scientific validation seeking tendencies that came naturally from that left brain of mind slowly melted away to opening its way to a deep sense of calm and gratitude.

[CHRIS]

So it sounds like you went from material earthly things to a deeper sense of yourself in the world?

[KUSHAL]

Yes, and along the way, kind of enjoying everything, meditation or trying to learn these modalities does not mean you have to give up material comforts or material wealth. That was something that was very refreshing for me. Because I thought that to be able to do these things, you need to give up everything, go to a cave in Himalayas and ---

[CHRIS]

You need to be a monk or

[KUSHAL]

Yes, and that's so exactly not the case. In fact, when you learn these techniques, when you go deeper, when you connect with yourself, it makes what you have even more juicy, even more enjoyable. That feverishness goes away and just another dimension opens up. So they both are, in my opinion, not mutually exclusive. In fact, they are complimentary to each other.

[CHRIS]

Oh, absolutely. I knew you're a survivor of 9/11. Can you share with my listeners what happened to you that day?

[KUSHAL]

Well, I don't know how graphic you want me to be, but it was ---

[CHRIS]

Whatever you feel like sharing.

[KUSHAL]

The day was just like any other day. I was coming out of the World Trade Center that day. I was on the second floor when the first plane hit. I was in the north tower. And of course there was an immediate fight or flight response from me and everyone around there. That was a pandemonium. People were just running helter skelter. Nobody knew what to do. As I approached the main door of the World Trade Center, there was a security person asking people to go back in because it was quite unsafe outside with glass splinters and cement chip and everything that was unruly raining down from the above. In that moment I decided, prompted by a voice or somebody I looked behind just said, let's get out of here. This is not safe.

So against the advice of this security person, I just went out. When I went out, I'm looking at this building in a state of days, just then another plane comes from the corner of my left eye and rams into the south tower. At that point I and everyone around, it was pretty sure that there was definitely something, a deliberate action here. This was not a freak accident. So I just dashed down the Liberty Street towards the east side of the Manhattan Island. As I'm walking, I hear this rumble and I look back and the North Tower is crumbling down like a house of cards. It created this huge bloom of dust and smoke, which was just moving to dust at a pace and engulfing everything along the way. I just ran and there was a ferry on the other side of the island who just pulling out and I just lept on it and jumped on it and it pulled out kind of making me one of, I was last person on the last ferry that day. I still could not process, but I realized one thing that in that moment that I had become a statistic, a 9/11 survivor.

[CHRIS]

Because I guess, do you think about if you went back in the building, what would happened?

[KUSHAL]

I do. I, for the longest time imagine what could have happened. I hope all those people did make it out on time, but there's no way for me to find that out. Yes, I live close from downtown Manhattan and oftentimes when I walk there, I see the beautiful, the park and the Memorial. I cannot but wonder, yes what could have happened if I had obeyed to what that security advisor said.

[CHRIS]

I know it sounds like you're trying to move from victim to survivor mode and that's what you were, a survivor. Do you believe in that there was any divine intervention for you being the last person on the last ferry?

[KUSHAL]

I'm sure. The whole thing is a divine intervention for me, stepping out, for me walking in the right direction, for me, that boat, everything was a divine intervention. Yes, absolutely.

[CHRIS]

My goodness. Wow, I mean, that's ---

[KUSHAL]

A kind of invisible hand of nature, invisible hand of consciousness, if you will, that just sometimes make us do certain things, which appears so, when you look back, it appears so fortuitous, but yes.

[CHRIS]

I can't imagine the emotion that went through your mind or not in your mind, but what you felt through that day and the thoughts that went through your mind

[KUSHAL]

To be frank, Chris, there was a mixed set of feelings. A part of me was very happy, very grateful that I had made it out somehow and then I wanted to go after everything that I had started with even more energy, with even more force, because I thought now I have a new reason life. So let me go after all of that, living that American dream and whatever I was here to achieve as an immigrant, but there was a part of me that was distinctly disinterested in everything thinking, what if you go down that path and something like this were to ever happen again and this time you're not so fortunate as you were the first time around? So what's the point of this? So there was a very distinct kind of dichotomy of emotions, one wanting to hit the gas pedal and the other one hitting the brakes very hard. So it created that that feeling of void inside me. I don't know how else to describe it, but it was that feeling where I thought what's the point. An I didn't know how to respond to that feeling of void.

[CHRIS]

So what's the point, that was a question that kept coming up for you?

[KUSHAL]

Yes, the question that kept coming up for me was what's the purpose of my life? What am I really doing? Is this all I'm here to do? Could there be something more to life than this corporate rat race? While I was good at what I was doing and successful in my professional career, something felt amiss. This void was really staring into my eyes and I thought maybe if I do more adventurous things, maybe I'm looking for more, you know, in a rush that probably will fill this void. So I started traveling the world. I started doing crazy things. I left my corporate job for a startup thinking that that would bring me some joy, but everything was quite a distraction. I would go do something and then come back feeling even more unfulfilled. So it was a funny state of chasing and then coming back, realizing this was not it, hitting a dead end and returning back to the same state.

[CHRIS]

So it seems like you went deeper within too, to figure out what is the point of this and where do I go from here?

[KUSHAL]

I stumbled upon it to be frank. I did not know any better when someone said you need to learn this prep work and meditation.

[CHRIS]

Oh, okay. So that's how you found out about that?

[KUSHAL]

Yes. As I told earlier, I was like, no, no, this is not for me. I'm happy. I don't need to learn this. Definitely not the right time for me. But in a funny sequence of events, I ended up to this public talk of this spiritual master [inaudible 00:12:59] who was traveling from India. That's the first time when I meditated. I experienced a state of mind without any thoughts. I experienced that I was always seeking that calm, that I felt was, really could have answers to a lot of the questions I had. That kept me going. That started my quest down that path of wanting to know more, wanting to explore the deeper dimensions of the consciousness that this breathwork and meditation opened up to me.

[CHRIS]

That's so powerful.

[KUSHAL]

It was indeed. When I tried this sky breath, meditation technique, the breathwork that this foundation, the art of living foundation offered it was an experience like never before. It created that deep sense of coherence, that sense of feeling at home. I don't know, how do I explain it in words, but like being at ease, being childlike, not thinking, not constantly stuck into that chitter chatter of the mind, but just kind of sitting at the deep end of the ocean sitting on the floor of the ocean, whereas it's peace and calm. It was a beautiful feeling and I thought first that perhaps this was a placebo effect or maybe I fell asleep and that's why I was feeling so calm.

That's when my scientifically trained mind sort of began looking for proof. Then when I started doing that, I came across some of these irrefutable scientific research that really created that sense of, oh yes, this is it. Because on one side there was an experience and the other side, there was this research, a scientifically validated kind of research out there, which both together gave me that comfort that, yes, this was not just something, imagination of my own mind, but there was really this practice, this breathwork has something to offer, which can be beneficial if I practice for a period of time.

[CHRIS]

Absolutely. That's interesting that you mentioned that we're more analytical person, but recognizing that this is all research-based stuff and that this is, there's legitimacy to this. It's not just something, some woo-woo out there thing.

[KUSHAL]

Exactly, exactly. First I thought it was some woo-woo out there because how could it make me so calm?

[CHRIS]

Right. Especially, I think most people don't think of somebody from Wall Street doing some breathwork and meditation.

[KUSHAL]

I mean, I couldn't see myself doing it, but when I learned that just two weeks of practicing this sky breath, it can reduce the stress hormone cortisol, or the grief hormone cortisol by almost 56% in the body. It creates this serotonin, the happiness hormone. It helps with sleep. It helps with the stimulation of the whole vagus system, the vagus nerve and it helps balance the sympathetic and parasympathetic neurosystem. I was completely amazed. I was taken aback just to find out that something as simple as our breath, as you're listening to this, you're breathing, but 25,000 times a day, we breathe and most often we are unaware of it. Oftentimes we breathe wrongly and just simple awareness to this, our own breadth can create so much, you know it has so much power. It can open up a completely different aspect, a completely different dimension to our, otherwise, ordinary and mundane life.

[CHRIS]

I'm glad you mention two weeks because that's what I've heard, that if you do consistent practice for two weeks, you're going to see some results.

[KUSHAL]

I saw the results in the very first week. The very first session I saw the results. I just stuck around looking for the hidden muffin to see what's the source of it. That's where there's all this science caught up with my experience. But I didn't even have to wait two weeks. From the very first experience I was there.

[CHRIS]

Nice. So what kind of lessons did you learn from this whole experience?

[KUSHAL]

I mean, so many lessons I learned along the way I've been now practicing and meditating for 15 years. One of the biggest lessons I learned was that this is the game of losing. The more you lose, the more you win. You lose your stresses, you lose your deeper impressions, you lose your concepts, you lose the patterns and conditioning of your mind that helps you, or not helps you, but conditioning that kind of makes you behave, makes you respond to situations in a certain way. Everything we do in our life is based on a certain pattern that is deeply rooted in our consciousness, in our nervous system, whether it's wanting a morning cup of coffee every day to making decisions of our pitch career to choose.

Everything comes from a pattern that is formed in our mind due to a prior experience that we've had. And losing these patterns, losing these impressions through breathwork makes us feel so at ease at home. So this is the game of losing, losing all of these things to become a better version of yourself. And looking at life as a play, as a game. It's not that once you start meditating, or once you start doing breathwork, suddenly life becomes you know a la-la-la. The stress factors and whatever is there in life is still going to come. The ups and downs are still going to be there.

But having this practice, being able to connect with yourself at a deeper level helps you move through this easily, helps you go through this without being stuck, without being attached. That's a beautiful feeling, and that's when life becomes a play. So yes, these are some of my takeaways. And just having that breath or having that consistent practice, it's such a gift, Chris. I cannot even even tell more. It's such a gift that keeps them giving. I always looked at, as a Wall Street trader, I always looked at the return on investment on everything.

[CHRIS]

So this was a good return on investment?

[KUSHAL]

This has a massive return on investment of my time. So truly it's a gift.

[CHRIS]

Because I think as listeners are tuning into this to really think about, we all can use more ease in our days. As therapists that are listening, we have tough jobs and adding more of this meditation and breathwork is just so essential to our self-care.

[KUSHAL]

The other thing I learned was, since you mentioned the self-care that I always put myself last on my list. And many of my friends and many of my colleagues, as I see we always in the rush to do things we always are so, I mean the responsible ones always put ourselves before everyone else in our lives, not realizing that even to show up for others, we need to take care of ourselves first. So a little something like this is so instrumental in kind of taking care of our own selves, our own mind before showing up for others, before responding to life and living our full potential.

[CHRIS]

Well, for your experience, how can trauma or a tragedy like this make you more receptive to new spiritual paths?

[KUSHAL]

I think an event like this makes you pause, makes you take a pause in otherwise such a fast-paced life. An event like this makes you ask bigger questions. An event like this can create that sense of what just happened to me and what am I doing? For me, it was early on an event at 9/11, but if you think about it, this pandemic in past couple of years has been an equally strong force of nature that has created the similar questions in everyone's minds.

It makes us question our jobs, our relationships. It makes us question our own being. And in such moments of deeper questioning or being vulnerable, you need a support, you need something that you can hold onto you. I've seen people in my life finding that support into things that are not so life supporting, anchoring themselves into something that gives or promises a short term relief like addictions or things that are not so sustaining over a longer period of time.

[CHRIS]

Netflix

[KUSHAL]

Yes, yes. One of those. It brings that momentary distraction, momentary relief, but it's not something that sustains us for a period of time.

[CHRIS]

So true. So how can meditation help with resiliency because like you said, with the pandemic, this affects everybody. As mental health providers, we're on the front lines of the mental health of everyone, not like the front lines of the physical health, but I just wonder what are your thoughts with meditation and resiliency? How could that help?

[KUSHAL]

Meditation goes a long way. First of all, it helps us, as you connect deeper with yourself, it makes you stronger. The benefit of this is on several folds, on a several layers of our own system. So we have different functions in our system. We have physical functions, we have emotional functions, we have cognitive functions, we have functions of perceptions, thinking, even judgment, memory. All these different layers of ourselves are strengthened.

And there's a sense of coherence that is brought in with meditation and breath work. So when you're physically strong, you're emotionally in a place where you can make decisions without getting flung around by the force of your own emotions. When your perception is clear when your intellect is free of any biases, when your memory is free of trauma, you become so natural. You become so resilient and strong that you move through challenges without getting tossed around. Then that comes that inner sense of confidence and strength that lets you cut through any of these obstacles that are on our way.

[CHRIS]

So really all of us should be doing the meditation and breathwork to keep ourselves sane in this insane world.

[KUSHAL]

I think so Chris. And I for one could not meditate early on. Before I learned sky breath workshop I could not meditate because the minute I would close my eyes is this barrage of thoughts and the to-do lists and what I'm going to have for dinner and what I'm going to present at my work tomorrow. All these things would just pop up incessantly, won't leave me alone. I thought, no, there is no experience of meditation. Forget about any calm. That's when I realized that to go a little deeper you can't control your mind with your own mind. If you tell your mind to do something it's going to do exactly opposites.

So to tell the mind resist this thought or don't think of something else it's not going to work. It did not work for me. So the sky breath was such a precious technique that I just stumbled upon, which using the power of our own breath, you know, it takes your mind to a place where it is meditation. You don't have to make an effort to meditate. That rhythms of breadth creates such harmony in your being that that state is meditation. You just kind of, it kind of picks you up and drops you into that state of meditation.

[CHRIS]

So you recommend using breath work before meditation, especially if you have trouble calming your mind?

[KUSHAL]

I absolutely recommend, hundred percent recommend, because that is a very natural and effortless way of cultivating our consciousness to be able to meditate effortlessly. Like we are not tuned, especially the younger you are, the easier it is to meditate, but as life happens, as we collect all these impressions, as our mind becomes more rigid and rid of all these patterns, conditioning, it's difficult to meditate. That's why you need something to disconnect these thoughts from the emotions, disconnect this emotions and its charge, the experiences and everything else that it brings along with it. Breadth does that. So you don't need to put any effort. You don't resist. In fact, as you breath the thoughts would come up as they leave you and you just observe them. You don't even resist it. You don't think of it. You have nothing to do. Simple instruction, just sit and breathe. That doesn't require much effort.

[CHRIS]

No.

[KUSHAL]

That just takes you into meditation.

[CHRIS]

I think you're right. Because I teach meditation and breathwork to clients and I know many holistic therapists listening do as well, but I always start with breathwork. I find that that really helps to ground people and I think meditation can be hard, especially for people who have never done because I've had people, they're used to going constantly all day long and just never stopping until the end of the day. Then they're going to try meditation and their minds a hundred miles an hour.

[KUSHAL]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. It was my experience too. I was going hundred miles an hour in four different directions. And forget about calming the mind. It was ---

[CHRIS]

Yes, it's too hard at that point, and that's why we call it a practice because it does take practice.

[KUSHAL]

Exactly.

[CHRIS]

To get to that place because most people aren't used to that.

[KUSHAL]

And it doesn't take too long. That's why, my an earnest submission that it does not take, oftentimes we think a practice comes with its own long winded road before you get there. But my experience is that it doesn't take that long.

[CHRIS]

It doesn't have to, right?

[KUSHAL]

A few sessions can just help you get there effortlessly.

[CHRIS]

Yes.

[KUSHAL]

Only effort is in committing to that time, finding that 15, 20 minutes in our busy schedule. I think we owe it to ourselves. That's the least we can do for ourselves. In the long run for our physical and mental health that's the least we can do.

[CHRIS]

Can you teach my listeners today a short breathwork exercise?

[KUSHAL]

Sure. Why not?

[CHRIS]

If you're driving, just pull over. Don't do this.

[KUSHAL]

It would be, since we are on just an audio platform, perhaps I can do a very simple breathwork technique, which I call it the straw breadth which requires us to just sit comfortably and easy with your spine straight, body relaxed, your feet are firmly on the ground, balanced, both the feet on the ground. We breathe in through our nose and we breathe out through our mouth as if you have an imaginary straw between your lips. So you pocket up your lips, make a small orifice, as small as you can and release your air, exhalation in as little quantum, as little amount as possible.

This extends your breath, your out breath in a natural way. We do it together. We breathe into the nose, we breathe out through the imaginary straw between our lips as slowly as possible. Continue breathing in through the nose, keeping the attention on the breath and out through the imaginary straw. Keep breathing with your eyes closed. Do not resist any thoughts or feelings. Just keep breathing in through the nose, out through the mouth. You may notice that the exhalation is getting longer and longer with every out breath without any effort. Relax your breath. Keep your eyes closed, return to normal breathing. Once again, keep your eyes closed, take a breath in the, and out through the mouth using the imaginary straw between your lips. Breath is moving in and out without effort and exhalation keeps getting longer with every out breath. And relax, return to normal breathing. Take a deep breath in and let go. When you feel complete, taking your own time slowly and gently open your eyes.

[CHRIS]

That was lovely.

[KUSHAL]

How do you feel?

[CHRIS]

Very calming. Ready for a nap. Thank you for sharing that.

[KUSHAL]

Of course.

[KUSHAL]

Just a little awareness, just a little attention on our breadth, it has the ability to shift our state of mind.

[CHRIS]

It really does. It really pushes you more into the present moment.

[KUSHAL]

Exactly.

[CHRIS]

Wow. That was very nice. You have a very lovely voice too, soothing. Perfect for our breath work and meditation. It's awesome. Wow. So how did you come up with the title of your book?

[KUSHAL]

Well, it's a reference to this World War II pilot, Hugh Ashcraft Jr., who is coming back from the warfront and his aircraft has been severely damaged through this enemy fire. He radios the tower saying that I'm coming to land on a wing and a prayer, which is to kind of say that when the going gets really difficult, that's when our attention moves towards the higher self, something bigger. So I was kind of in that, my journey was very similar to Hugh Ashcraft. So I thought it would be an appropriate title to say, hey this whole, first of all, this surviving the attacks, stumbling onto this practice, learning different things and finally coming to realize, or even continuing to learn and know more about myself, it's all on a wing and a prayer.

[CHRIS]

I think that's perfect title for it. So Kushal have I missed anything else that you want to share?

[KUSHAL]

No, I think we talked about everything.

[CHRIS]

Everything in the world.

[KUSHAL]

But I would love to facilitate a sky breath meditation workshop for your listeners if there was an interest.

[CHRIS]

Yes.

[KUSHAL]

I would love to hear from your listeners if they have a chance to read the book and see what they think about it.

[CHRIS]

That would be great. It's going to be released October 15th, which will be, this will be airing after that, so it'll be out by then.

[KUSHAL]

Wonderful.

[CHRIS]

Yes, that's great. If listeners want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to find you?

[KUSHAL]

I'm on Instagram. My Instagram handle is Choksi108, C-H-O-K-S-I, my last name, 108, and also on my website where I have all my social media and emails. But I encourage them to connect with me and reach out.

[CHRIS]

And let them know how you like the breath work today.

[KUSHAL]

That'd be great.

[CHRIS]

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

[KUSHAL]

Thank you, Chris. It's my pleasure.

[CHRIS]

And good luck with the book.

[KUSHAL]

Thank you so much.

[CHRIS]

Thank you to my listeners for tuning in to today's episode. Did you like today's episode? Please share it with a colleague or friends so we can continue to grow and offer more quality content. If you haven't done so yet, please subscribe, rate and review wherever you get your podcast. This is Chris McDonald, sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time.

[CHRIS]

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