How To Overcome Money Anxiety In Your Holistic Private Practice: Interview with Linzy Bonham

Oct 11, 2023

This episode is sponsored by Alma. Alma is on a mission to simplify access to high-quality, affordable mental health care by giving providers the tools they need to build thriving in-network private practices. When providers join Alma, they gain access to insurance support, teletherapy software, client referrals, automated billing and scheduling tools, and a vibrant community of clinicians who come together for education, training, and events.

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How can you begin to overcome money anxiety in your private practice? How can you begin to acquire the skills to run a successful and sustainable practice?

MEET Linzy Bonham

Linzy Bonham is a private practice therapist turned money coach who helps private practice owners and health professionals feel calm and in control of their finances through her coaching at Money Nuts & Bolts and her podcast Money Skills for Therapists. It all started when she saw her extremely skilled colleagues struggle with the money side of business. Some had even left private practice or were avoiding starting one because the financial side was too stressful. So Linzy decided to help therapists and health professionals develop peace of mind about their money. Since so many were never taught these skills, she focuses on the “how” of making the business side of private practice doable, and even super satisfying.

Find out more at Money Skills For Therapists and connect with Linzy on  Instagram

Money Skills For Therapists The Podcast


  • Why are finances so difficult for some people? 4:50
  • What are the common mistakes that therapists make when dealing with their finances? 9:18
  • What are some common misconceptions that therapists have about money and finances? 12:41
  • Strategies to become more confident with money 18:21

Why Are Finances So Difficult For Some People?

  • Do you have to be good at math to be good at finances?
  • How does your personality affect the way you deal with money?
  • Why do we avoid dealing with our finances?
  • Understanding what your “connection” is with money

What Are The Common Mistakes That Therapists Make When Dealing With Their Finances?

  • How to find the right money management strategy for you
  • The importance of understanding how taxes work for your individual practice
  • Changing your mindset on owing taxes

What Are Some Common Misconceptions That Therapists Have About Money And Finances?

  • Why do we feel guilty about earning money?
  • How do your values and money go together?
  • The importance of identifying what your values are
  • What is the difference between money and finances?

Strategies To Become More Confident With Money

  • Identifying what your beliefs are about money and finances
  • Finding a system that suits your brain
  • Dealing with clients when it comes to payments and policies
  • Where to start when managing money and finances as a therapist

Connect With Me

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Sign up for my free email course:

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Resources Mentioned And Useful Links:

Find out more at Money Skills For Therapists and connect with Linzy on  Instagram

Money Skills For Therapists The Podcast


Chris McDonald: Does the thought of managing money in your private practice cause your stomach to clench up? Or does any of this sound familiar? I have a lot of anxiety around money, so I just avoid it. Or I just zero out everything and spend everything I have. I don't save for taxes. I don't prepare for the future, or I always feel like I just have enough.

No matter how many clients I see, I still feel like I'm just getting by. If you can relate, you will love this episode. We will be discussing how to overcome money anxiety. in your private practice and the biggest mistakes that keep therapists from getting clarity on their private practice finances. My guest is Lindsay Bonham.

She created a framework for helping therapists to get their finances in order. So you don't want to miss today's episode.

This is Holistic Counseling, a podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome back to the Holistic Counseling Podcast. If the thought of managing taxes, tracking spending and saving and developing systems for your money in private practice makes you tense up and be filled with anxiety, you are not alone. Many therapists struggle with not knowing what to do. Many just avoid it altogether and struggle with the fallout of overspending, maybe not saving enough for taxes.

I know I've been there as well. Today's guest is Lindsay Bonham. She's a private practice therapist turned money coach who helps private practice owners and health professionals feel calm and in control of their finances through her coaching at Money, Nuts and Bolts and her podcast, Money Skills for Therapists.

Lindsay says there is a better way to manage your money. Welcome to the holistic counseling podcast,

Linzy Bonham: Lindsay. Hi, thanks, Chris. Thanks for having me. So let's

Chris McDonald: start with how did you become interested in the financial side of

Linzy Bonham: private practice? Yeah. So I started my private practice and I remember jumping into my private practice.

This would have been nine, 10 years ago now. And just feeling so Hungry for like finding like the book. I was like, okay, I'm doing practice. So like, where's the book that tells me how to do the money part? Uh, and I looked through a lot of books, uh, looking for that, like, okay, so how do I know how much to pay for taxes?

And how do I set up a good filing system? Like, I remember being really hungry for these very specific things when I started and then really. Yeah. eventually having to come to the conclusion of like, oh, nobody's really talking about that. Like I can glean, I gleaned a little bit here. I gleaned a little bit there.

So I went in hungry, found that there wasn't really much out there. And then as I spent more time in private practice, I started to realize like this thing that I was really interested in, hungry for in these systems that I had built. My colleagues hated this stuff. Like they didn't, they were not interested in the money part.

They didn't really want to talk about it. It was stressful. And I started to identify like, oh, this thing that I actually really like that I'm like really interested and curious about with private practice is something that other therapists do not like. And, uh, you know, business brain, uh, that's always an opportunity to identify, hmm, there's an opportunity here, uh, when I love and I'm good at something, uh, that the folks that I connect with really easily do not love and are not good at.

Have you been

Chris McDonald: good at math?

Linzy Bonham: I have a number. Yeah. Oh, you know what's funny though, Chris? Like, yes, I have been good at math, but identity stuff, right? I think identity stuff comes into money and math a lot. I dropped math in high school as soon as I could. Cause I was like, no, I am an English person. I'm an art person.

I'm not a sciences person. So I dropped my grade after grade 11. You didn't have to do any more math. And I had this really lovely math teacher, Mr. Otharo. He was like a philosophical math teacher. And he said it was a great loss. That I was not continuing in math and I was like, see ya, uh, but I was, I was pretty good at it.

It just, it wasn't as compelling to me as like humans and emotions and relationships, but it's always been something that I'm like, yeah, okay. I can wrap my brain around

Chris McDonald: that. Yeah. My relationship was not so good. I didn't take it in senior either. And I was like, I, I want to be a therapist. I just want to help people.

I don't want to do any of the math.

Linzy Bonham: I get it. Yes, that's how I felt about it too for a while until until it came to my own life and I moved out and I was like, Oh, I have money now and I have a certain amount of money I have to manage. That's when I started getting interested in finances because my parents were of the kind of mindset that I think they saw that I had the ability.

So they gave me. money and they were like, this is what you have for the whole year. And I was like, okay. And I had to, I had to learn my mom's an accountant. So, you know, she had taught me some things. And so that's when I became interested again, when it was like part of my wellbeing and survival to actually learn how to use math, to be able to pay bills and enjoy life as a 20 something.


Chris McDonald: What's why are we here? So why is finances so hard for mental health

Linzy Bonham: therapists? That's a good question. I mean, the first thing comes to what we were just talking about a second ago, right? Like there is this identity piece. Like I kind of think of it as like a Venn diagram. There's like folks who like love math and numbers.

And then there's folks who love people and relationships and that overlap. is generally pretty small. It's really rare that I personally run into other therapists who are like, I also love math and spreadsheets. And we're always like, we high five when we meet because it's such like a small little club, because generally speaking, we don't tend to be really into both of those things.

That's just not, you know, I think we can only be good at so many things. Um, and most people are not distributed. So that's number one is like, I think people, I think therapists are brilliant. I think they're super, super smart, super capable. Um, but often math is not something that has been something that's come easily for them.

So that's the first thing. Then after that, my theory, Chris, is that because therapists are extremely capable, we also tend to be professionalistic. We tend to be people pleasers. We want to be good at things. We're achievers. So when we're not naturally good at something, we tend to be a group that's pretty quick to abandon things that.

don't feel good and easy, right? Like we would rather spend our time learning a new modality that allows us to do incredible work with somebody than to learn how to figure out our quarterly tax estimates, right? There's not going to be such a draw and we're going to be a lot faster to give up if something is hard or isn't going right because we're not comfortable necessarily in that like growing space.

So I think perfectionism also can really get in the way of therapists learning money because it's not necessarily natural for us. Yeah, I was

Chris McDonald: just thinking about how much I love trainings and new modalities. I'm like, are you talking about me? Yes. It's so common though, isn't it? We're just so excited to sign up.

But I don't sign up for any

Linzy Bonham: of these money courses. No, no. I mean, yeah, most people don't. And that's what I tend to see when I have therapists who are in my course and. You know, I see people's books a lot, right? Like when I'm looking at folks's numbers and therapists spend so much time and money on improving our clinical skills, learning this new intervention, you know, learning how to do this certain thing with a certain subpopulation that we might not even work with, but we have one client, maybe it kind of applies.

Like, we get so excited about that learning and. My kind of framing around math and money is like, it's totally learnable. It's actually a lot easier than the other stuff that we do, but it is like our past experiences, our anxiety around money, our bad, bad experiences with like a math teacher making us feel stupid in class or like a parent making a disparaging comment.

It's that kind of baggage that we tend to have around math and then also around money because we also inherit all sorts of money baggage that stops us from being able to learn these things, even though our brain is perfectly available to learn. Much more complex things that we do as clinicians.

Chris McDonald: So do a lot of therapists just avoid this altogether?

Is that what you've noticed?

Linzy Bonham: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, like I've had to over time, I've been teaching my, uh, signature course, money skills for therapists for five years now. And over time, I've had to actually integrate some language around folks who have the opposite relationship where they have like an anxious, over touching relationship with money.

Because when I first started doing this work, everybody I met just avoided. It's like, I was like, okay, this is the standard response is like therapists aren't good at it. So they just avoid. And then there's times when it pops up at tax season, they have to do it. So then they have this like horrible weekend of, you know, doing a whole year's worth of finances and one weekend, uh, or, you know, yeah, taxes come up and they don't have the money to pay it.

And then there's kind of like a crisis, but otherwise it tends to get avoided. Uh, and kind of push to the side

Chris McDonald: and you said other people might be too hands on. Yes. Yeah.

Linzy Bonham: And then what I have learned is there's a subset of folks less, but still some therapists who are over touchers where it's like they check their bank accounts all the time.

And if they're doing any kind of financial management system, like tracking or like profit first, they do it like often, like every day where it's more of like an anxious. Attachment style to money where there's a lot of connection with money, so they're not avoiding, but it's not a calm or grounded connection, right?

Like it's very much an anxiety based connection with money of having to touch it and look at it all the time, but they don't actually get any peace or clarity or satisfaction from that behavior.

Chris McDonald: It's like overcompensating in a way. Almost like feeling like they're in control, but it feels out

Linzy Bonham: of control.

It's seeking control. Um, but I think the clue as to whether that's your relationship with money is like you, you do it, but you still don't really feel better or you think you feel better. But the next day you find yourself doing the same behavior. Like you're in a bit of a loop with it. That's when you know that it's not a balanced relationship with money.

It's probably an overly anxious relationship with money. instead. What

Chris McDonald: are some other mistakes that therapists make in trying to get hold of their finances? Sure.

Linzy Bonham: I mean, a really big one that I see is that we think that there's like one right way to do it. And so for lots of folks, this means like signing up for QuickBooks where they're like, I'm going to do it.

My accountant told me that QuickBooks is the way we think that there's that right way to do it. And then people get into QuickBooks and it doesn't make any sense to them. Which it doesn't because it's full suite accounting software. Um, it's for accountants and bookkeepers. And so folks get in and then they get overwhelmed by that


Linzy Bonham: and then they end up just not using it.

So it's like, even though there was this gesture towards doing it, they pick something that's really overwhelming. And then in the end, people still don't end up touching their finances or knowing what's going on because the tool is overwhelming. So that's, that's the first thing that I see for big mistakes.

Other things that I see are Uh, pretending that taxes don't exist. Not a great strategy. I mean, just spend my money. Yeah, yeah. I think we all know that. So it's like we were doing this kind of a double thing where it's like, we know that taxes are going to have to come out eventually. And this is especially true, Chris, for folks who are new in practice when you're not on quarterly payments yet.

And you're just like, well, we'll see what happens at tax time, hoping that it's going to work out and not actually saving for taxes or being real with yourself of like, okay, my spouse and I's income together puts us in this tax bracket. If you're American filing, filing jointly with a spouse is the standard and like making a plan to save for it.

Uh, just kind of ignoring it, putting your head in the sand. I call that ostriching, uh, ostriching around taxes is like really common and then also so painful. So painful because if you get like a 7, 000 tax bill or a 10, 000 tax bill that you cannot pay, now you're into like a loop with the IRS or the CRA.

I call this like the painful tax cycle, where it's like now you're going to spend next year paying back taxes for the year before, which makes it hard to save for this year's taxes, which means eventually you're probably going to be behind on next year's taxes too. And then you're kind of end up deeper and deeper into this hole.

It's, it's a really discouraging place to

Chris McDonald: be. Yeah. No, I, I, can I tell you a quick story? Of course you can. So I had, um, had a similar issue with a tax. Now I know I've been in practice. I'm not new. I've been in practice a while, but I realized that at one point I just stopped putting enough away. Cause I thought my taxes were going to be the same every year that I pay.

Yes. I don't know if that's a common mistake, but guess what happened. It came around and I didn't have enough. And so for me, that's like sheer panic and like, what do I do? What do I do? And, you know, and then I wiped out my savings for business and I was like, Oh my God, what do I do? And I, I have insurance based practice.

So then I have to wait for more money to come in. When does this money come in? We don't always know. So yeah, very, very stressful. I won't make that mistake.

Linzy Bonham: Yeah. And like the framing that I like to put on it. Chris is like, having to pay taxes is a good thing. Like it shows that you're making money. And like that happens, right?

Where it's like, well, last year, my tax bill was 5, 000. So this year it's going to be 5, 000, but not stop in and really register. Like, yeah, but my practice has grown. So I'm seeing double the clients that I was last year, because that has a huge impact on your taxes. So it's like, it's good that you had to pay more taxes because you made more money.

I did, but it's like, yeah. Having to keep, keep an eye on that and like adjust your savings plans based on what you're making now, not what you made last year.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, it's a very painful mistake. So just know if that's you, if that's happened, just know you're not alone. And we're not here to judge

Linzy Bonham: you on this.

No, no, no, no. We've all been there. Many, many people have been

Chris McDonald: there. Yeah. So what are some misconceptions that therapists have about money and private practice and

Linzy Bonham: finances? Yeah, I mean, there's, there's different kind of, I think about it, there's almost like different components to money and finances, right?

Because there's finances, which is about like math, taxes and rules. And then there's like money. Which is its own beast, right? Which is about like setting fees and having value and like making money. So I'll start with money first. I think that a big misconception, um, that so many therapists have around money is that it's not okay to want to make money.

Uh, and it's not okay to even need to make money. Sometimes we're even denial about our own needs. And so often people are not honest with themselves about what they actually need. to like pay their mortgage, put money away for their kids education, like actually be able to take time off and like be well, you know, like as, as a therapist, you're the beating heart of your business.

Right. And if we're not well, our business can't thrive. Right. And if we're not well, we're actually even at risk of not being able to earn money if we burn out or become ill. Right. So it's like, that's so, so important, but it's so easy as therapists to get really Bound up and feeling guilty about money.

I've worked with lots of therapists who through different like political or religious beliefs feel like money is bad. Like you shouldn't want it. Like money is an inherently bad thing. So if you want money, you're bad. Or if you're putting money and your need for money ahead of some helping somebody else, you're a bad person.

Um, right. Like we that kind of martyrdom and an obligation to serve. can make our relationship to money itself and the fact that we have to earn money complicated from the get go. What about

Chris McDonald: values and money? I know you talk about this in one of your episodes.

Linzy Bonham: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, values and money. I kind of think about two different states with values and money.

What I see when folks haven't done work on their relationship with money is often their values can be a reason that they haven't made peace with money. Or that they haven't figured out money again, if they have like strong social justice values, it's like there's this value or belief that like they shouldn't be making very much money for what they're doing.

So then that's going to get in the way of making a business work for them, getting paid enough to be well, right? So that's where I see values often start with money is they can be very conflictual. But what I like to encourage folks as they move through actually building skills around money and starting to let go of the beliefs that aren't serving them is like money is an incredible tool to live our values and to amplify our values, right?

Like money is a tool to make things happen in the world. So as you like. do your work with money, you can start to identify your values. And like, let's say you're, you have, I like to get down to three values. So let's say your, your values are like family, adventure, community, right? Then you can think about how money.

can bring more of those things into your life. Because my perspective and my experience is when we are really living our values, when we are just like filled up with the stuff that really feeds us. And for me, Chris, that's going to be different than what it is for you. But like, if I use my money in family, for instance, to like plan a trip for my son that he'll remember the rest of his life.

Right. And like, Save enough money to like really do the things we want to do and not have it be stressful. That is an excellent use of money. Like it's a very powerful use of money. And that's more powerful than like maybe ordering out, ordering in a few more times that month, right? Or then buying like a second pair of jeans when like, really, I only need one or two.

So that's very personal. But values can be an excellent guidepost for how money can really serve us. Going

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This makes it so much more accessible for you and your clients. Learn more about building a thriving private practice with Alma at helloalma. com. That's hello, A L M A dot com to get started today. And you said there's differences between money and finances. Yeah. So tell me about what is the difference with that with finances?

How is that

Linzy Bonham: different? Okay. Thank you. Yeah, money is what we were just talking about, which is like, I almost think of money as like this more overarching idea, right? We have feelings about money, but finances is really about the organizing of the money that we have, right? So this is where we get into math.

This is where having negative beliefs about ourselves and our ability with math or having had bad experiences with math can make money hard because with money, There is an understanding and an organizing a set of skills that when you have that, then you can make money work for you, right? Like that's where you have the skills to like, be like, okay, I'm going to do the math and I see based on what I'm making this year, uh, I'm going to put aside 20 percent of every dollar that comes in the door.

I'm going to put aside. This is my financial system to get that money aside. Now I know that what's left is for my paychecks and my operating expenses. That's an example of like a financial system that once you have the confidence to like, do that, that quick equation and put the system in place. Now your money is flowing the way that you need it to, and it can start to serve you well.

Um, but that's, that's really about the, the management of money is where finances

Chris McDonald: come in. I know I saw some of your testimonials. It sounds like people do get to that place where they feel confident and feel calmer with money. Yeah. Can you talk more about that?

Linzy Bonham: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, as we're talking about this, it's kind of like the pathway that I walk folks through with money skills for therapists, which is my main course is we almost like we start with money, your beliefs about money.

and your beliefs about finances. And then as you start to identify those and really are honest with yourself about what do you want to keep, what do you want to let go of, what do you want to believe, when you start to do that, um, emotional work and that narrative work, like those stories, then you free up your brain for learning.

Right. And this is what I was saying earlier, like therapists are smart. Like we're real smart. And we do work that like many other people are like, I would rather do almost anything. Then, uh, you know, sit in a room and hold that space for emotions and have to be thinking about 100 things at once as you're trying to navigate a conversation with a client.

We, I think, really don't give ourselves credit for just how, how brainy our brains are. But once you start to let go of that story of like, Oh, yeah, I'm not actually bad at math. I just had this math teacher that I really didn't like, or my brother was really good at math. So I never had the room to feel confident because he was outshone me or whatever.

Once you start to work through those stories, then you can start to. Learn right. And in money skills, like my whole thing, Chris is making the complex clear. That's, that's my whole jam. I did my Clifton strengths assessment. Are you familiar with that one? No, no, it's, it's like, um, like a personality thing. I think there's 35 different traits.

And based on a bunch of questions, they give you like your top five traits of all the possible aspects that you could have as a human. These are your top five. My very top one is Which is all about building relationships and conveying complex information in ways that are simple to understand. And like, that is what I do.

So once you start to have the emotions around money come down, then it's like, Oh, okay. So this is the equation that helps me understand what's left in my business. And this is how I figure out what I have to say for taxes. And this is the system that I can put in place. So that's actually automatic. So I'm not having to think about it all the time.

And like, this is how I can actually get myself to sit down and do the work. Like once you break it out into those bite sized pieces, uh, it becomes very doable. Um, and that's, that's what I

Chris McDonald: help people do. Cause it sounds like if you were just to have a course and just say, Hey, here's a system go, it probably wouldn't be successful,

Linzy Bonham: right?

No, no. And I do a lot of choose your own adventure. Because my whole thing is like, you need to have a system that suits you and your brain. And my brain is going to look really different than your brain. It's going to look really different from this person over here's brain. So it's like really helping people understand, even in terms of flow, like what's the amount of time you need to set aside to work on something that you get on a flow that you get things done, but you don't overwhelm yourself.

And then you can walk away and be like, I'm done. I did it. I don't have to do it again until next Tuesday. Right. And like, what is the frequency? And that's so personal. And it's so about your life and your learning style and your, your energy capacity. Right. And so those are things that in the course, like I'm really guiding folks through thinking about like, what do you need to be able to do these things?

And like, here's a bunch of different options for systems. Here's some different options for budgeting, but it's all layered on like a little bit at a time. And when you do that little bit at a time. Then you come out having built something really substantial, but you did it in a really natural step by step way.


Chris McDonald: appreciate it. It's like individualizing for themselves and not just QuickBooks. I got to tell you, QuickBooks and me, we're not friends. No, no.

Linzy Bonham: QuickBooks doesn't have a lot of therapist friends. Oh

Chris McDonald: my Lord. Different, different

Linzy Bonham: crowd. And then that way too, Chris, like, I think when you do that individualized work, like as a, as a student going through a course like that, where you're like, you're making your own choices, then it means that if in three months, you're like, you know what, I thought that I was really gonna like this tool, but actually don't, then you have the, the empowerment and the agency to switch gears because you're not just being taught one way of doing something that will work or not, then you can be like, Oh, okay, this tool is not great.

I'm actually gonna switch to the spreadsheet. Like my whole aim is getting folks out of the nest. It's kind of like the metaphor, right? Like, I don't want to. Thank you. Thank you. Um, have folks rely on me to have like a grounded relationship with money. I want people to be building like a grounded lifelong relationship with money that they leave my course and they just like have that relationship for literally the rest of their life.

Chris McDonald: Something they can use. And so I wonder, um, just to a little bit off topic, but still on topic. So the relationship with money with clients, I wonder if that's something that you address as well. Cause I'm just thinking like no show fees. Yes. our therapists losing a lot of money.

Linzy Bonham: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

And that is something that we do talk about as folks. Once you get real about like what you need and where you are, then those things can start to feel, they become more relevant, right? Of being able to be like, okay, like curiosity is always my thing. So like, be curious, like, just take a look back on the last two months.

How many no shows did you have? How many of those folks did you collect a fee for? What does that mean for you financially? And a lot of times it's like, are you even upholding your own policies? So often we have policies that we put in place because we know that we need to be enforcing our boundaries, but then we don't follow through.

And that is the, the contract that the client has already signed with you. They're expecting you to charge them. Um, but then when you don't, you're kind of nullifying that agreement between you. So sometimes with folks, it's like just looking to get back to the policy that they already promised. And like, my perspective is that.

People come to us for therapy, looking for corrective experiences and boundaries are a really important part of a healthy relationship, right? And so when you tell a client, okay, if you don't show for your session, there's a no show fee of 50 and then you don't charge them. They're having another experience of somebody saying that they're going to do something and saying they're like, this is what they need, but they're not actually enforcing it, which starts to create haziness in the therapeutic relationship.

Right. That could bring up all sorts of things for your clients in terms of like their reactions to you not enforcing that or blurriness around the boundary. So I think it's really good for our clients when we do the things that we say we're

Chris McDonald: going to do. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And what about sliding scale?

What is your thoughts on that? Yeah.

Linzy Bonham: So my perspective is sliding scale is Great. You have to run your numbers and see how many sliding scale folks you can actually support and be, again, clear with yourself around what that number is and hold your boundaries. So a practice that is more of like a, say, out of pocket premium fee practice, somebody might run the math and see, okay, I can do three sliding scale clients and I can be really generous because this person over here has paid me 200 an hour.

So I can afford to see this, this single parent. who's really struggling, I can afford to see them for 50 bucks an hour because the math works, right? It's, but it's like, start with the math because when we don't, uh, we get resentful, right? Like it does come out and we don't want it to, we don't want to feel resentful of our clients.

Um, but if we have over promised, uh, we are going to feel that in our bodies. And I think it is also going to come into the therapeutic relationship, uh, whether we want it to or not.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I think new therapists got to be. Careful with that. 'cause they wanna get new clients. Yes. But, um, I had a client once who I was seeing for 50 an hour and Oh my God.

Then she would talk about her Disney vacation. Uh, yeah. And, and all these things. And I'm just like, whoa. Mm-hmm. pump the brakes here. Totally. So, yeah, talk about resentment

Linzy Bonham: a hundred percent. And I've been there too. Um, and I think, you know, Clinically, like therapeutically, that's where it is also important for us to have the hard conversation, right?

And, you know, policy wise, like if we can build that in from the beginning of our sliding scale relationships to say, okay, I can offer you this rate for 10 sessions. And at the end of our 10 sessions, we're going to revisit this rate and see if it's possible to continue with this rate or where we're at at that time, like build in the expectation of revisiting it.

Because it is awkward, especially if you've been seeing someone for a long time. I've totally been there. I remember those moments and it's not good for them either. You know, if you're feeling resentful, it's not good for them. And also like therapeutically, like how powerful would it be to reflect back?

Like, Hey, I'm noticing, you know, we have a sliding scale here. You know, you're spending 50 a week on therapy and yet, you know, financially you're finding space for Disney. Like, tell me more about that. I love that. Open ended. It's open ended. It's not just mental. It's curious. Just curious. Hey, you can't find a hundred bucks for therapy, but you found 10, 000 for Disney.

That's like super curious. But don't say it that way. Cause that was a little bit resentful. That was a little more obvious. Um, but you know, it, it's a powerful conversation to have because you're also letting that person stop and reflect of like, what am I doing here? And maybe do I not value therapy or maybe like, what is that about?

Right. There's so much we can offer our clients when we start having brave conversations around money. Cause they need to have brave conversations around money too.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, that's modeling it too. Yeah,

Linzy Bonham: it is. It is. And even if we're shaking in our boots, we're still showing them how to have a hard conversation.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I think that for those that want to do sliding scale, I think it's great to offer the access for people. If you have it, like you said, Lindsay, with your budget and, but don't make it a permanent solution. So like you said, just looking at, I have people sign an agreement and we're going to revisit this.

So they know that, you know, especially if circumstances change or, you know, they get a hundred thousand dollar a year job, then. This does not

Linzy Bonham: apply. And that can include your circumstances too, Chris. Like it's like sometimes it's like, Oh, I've had this like unexpected health cost come up, or I had to change my child's childcare situation.

And suddenly my expenses have gone up 700 a month. That that's also a change in circumstances that warrants changing your fee structure with that person. You matter. You matter. You matter. Yeah. Not just what's happening for them. What's happening for you also matters. Yeah. I

Chris McDonald: appreciate you saying that. So what about if a listener is having difficulty with their finances and they don't really have their system, where do they start?

Cause it could be overwhelming.

Linzy Bonham: It is overwhelming. And my, my first step always, this is like the trauma therapist in me, but it's just like being with, like, if you're totally overwhelmed, if you're avoiding. It is a step to literally open your bank account, scroll down, be curious, notice, okay, where's my money going?

What's the number at the bottom? Is it the number I want to see or the number at the top? You know, where are we landing? How much is on my credit card? Let yourself basically tolerate. Build up a tolerance to that information, because this is what I think of the avoidance can start from is like when we can't tolerate the emotions or the thoughts that come up, even looking at our finances, there's no way we can start to systematize and solve, right?

So there's a presence that's really helpful to develop. And that might be. Saying, okay, today I'm going to look at my bank account for five minutes. I'm going to like pay my credit card as much as I can, and then I'm going to leave. And next week I'm going to take a look at it for 10 minutes. And then I'm going to start to do a little bit of looking around for like, what's a better bank for me?

Because I know that this one is not serving my needs, right? It's like give yourself little baby steps of being with, but certainly like, so that's my first emotional step is be with my first practical step always is separate bank account. Some people are like, Oh yeah, I've had that like since I was born, you know, like for some folks, they do this at the very beginning of practice.

But if you haven't set up a separate business bank account yet, and it doesn't even have to be a business bank account. If you're just a sole proprietor practicing under your own name, but having a separate bank account where at least all the money is flowing through there means that one, you can see what's actually happening in your business, how much money is actually left there at the month.

But two, it also means that at the end of the year, you don't have to look here, there, and everywhere. To figure out what transactions were for your business, like you're streamlining, you're putting all the information together into one place. Um, so that you don't have to search for it later. And that in itself, if somebody doesn't have an, an, like a separate bank account is a massive level up to get you started with some clarity.

Yeah, that's

Chris McDonald: huge. Yeah, it is. And that's a relatively painless process. Relatively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's worse

Linzy Bonham: things. Yeah. And there's lots of banks out there. And um, I've actually just started partnering with a banking platform because they make it so easy. Like there are more and more online banking platforms that like make it easy.

You don't have to like go in on a certain day with ID. So, you know, shop around. And see what bank feels easy to work with.

Chris McDonald: I know you mentioned you have a money skills course for therapists. Can you talk a little bit more what you offer in that?

Linzy Bonham: Sure, yeah. So money skills for therapists is a six month course.

Um, it has six modules and it walks folks from, you know, our whole thing is taking people from money confusion and shame and overwhelm. to common confidence like that transformation we were chatting about earlier. So it walks you through money stories, getting really clear on where things are now, picking the right system for yourself so that you can track your money, picking the right budgeting system.

We don't teach budget until later. By then you're like much more comfortable with money so that you can direct money powerfully where you want it to go. And like, ultimately what that course teaches you is how to. Direct money, not just towards making sure your business is healthy, but have your business taking care of like you and your needs as a clinician and as the beating heart of your business.

Have your money take care of you. Oh, that's

Chris McDonald: great words to remember. Have your money take care of you.

Linzy Bonham: Yeah. Yeah. That's your money's

Chris McDonald: job. What's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about

Linzy Bonham: you? Sure. So they can check out my website, um, money, nuts and bolts. com. That's where you can learn more about money skills for therapists.

And I also have a podcast, um, which is also called Money Skills for Therapists. So they can follow me there or we're on Instagram at Money Nuts and Bowls, which is my business name.

Chris McDonald: And that'll be in the show notes. I highly recommend the podcast. I've been listening. It's great. Yeah. Thank you so much.

Really great information, but thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Lindsay.

Linzy Bonham: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Chris. I really enjoyed it.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. This has been great. And I hope listeners that was helpful for you. Be sure to tune in next Wednesday when another episode drops. And did you love this episode? I could really use your help.

So please remember to rate and review this episode today so I can attract even more impactful guests for the podcast and continue to attract more holistic therapists to grow this holistic community. And once again, this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light and love. Till next time, take care.

Thanks for listening. The information in this podcast is for general educational purposes only, and it is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are giving legal, financial counseling, or any other kind of professional advice. If you need a professional, please find the right one for you.

Linzy Bonham: The Holistic Counseling

Chris McDonald: Podcast is proudly part of the Site Craft network.

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