Episode 130 Quantum Healing | The Impact On Mental Health & Transformation Through Self-Healing: Interview with Bobby Apeiron

Chris McDonald: This is an episode you don't wanna miss today. We'll unravel the basis of the powerful modality of quantum healing. We'll explore how the quantum perspective provides a unique lens through which we can understand our own power and healing potential. Get ready to embark on an enlightening journey of self-discovery as we dive into the world of quantum healing and how it can change your life and the world.

Let's begin. This is holistic counseling, the podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome back to the Holistic Counseling Podcast. In today's episode, we embark on a fascinating journey into the world of quantum healing. Whether you're someone seeking healing from your own past, or curious to explore the depths of the human psyche, this episode will give you a deeper understanding of self and mental health concerns, all from a quantum lens.

We also discuss the profound potential for transformation and healing that lies un all of us. Today's guest is Bobby Aon, and he is a love realized quantum physician. He navigated the western medicine system seeking answers to his own suffering, but found only dead ends and partial solutions. This led him to embark on a journey of the soul to acquire deeper truths about the nature of his reality.

And the human condition. Bobby seeks to eradicate the viral mentality of fear, separation, and captivity to empower freedom and self-mastery of the body, mind, hard, and soul. Each of these expressions are ways that he manifests his ultimate mission and purpose, which is to accelerate the evolution of consciousness to bring heaven on earth.

Welcome to the podcast Bobby.

Bobby Apieron: Thank you. So happy to be here.

Chris McDonald: Yes. Uh, can you share with my listeners a little bit more about how you got started with what you're doing

Bobby Apieron: now? Yeah, definitely. So I went through Western medicine training. I received my MD at the University of Nevada Reno School of Medicine, and then went over to University of North Carolina Chapel Hill to complete what I thought to be a pathology.

Um, residency program. About six months into that pathology of residency training, I had a spiritual awakening, and we can go into a little bit more of that in detail later on if you'd like. But part of that process was feeling like I was almost waking up from a trance and realizing that, hey, this isn't necessarily the path that, that I want to go down.

And looking deeply into kind of the. The processes that cause human suffering, kind of the experiences, the expressions, the creations, the manifestations that we are all experiencing and finding the commonalities, finding the patterns between each of us. Now, what is, what is the human condition really, and how do we heal it?

Because at the root cause of all disease, from my perspective, is. Uh, perceived separation from himself mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. And so many of, of these diseases that we see, these expressions, these manifestations of disease are, are coming from a, a deeper root cause. Most of them are symptoms.

And so when we can get to the root cause of perceived separation from self source, God, whatever word we want to use to describe that. Then we can finally understand, appreciate, acknowledge, and heal. So I realized, you know, going into Western medicine, I wanted to heal myself. I wanted to heal others. And to me, I didn't see a lot of that happening.

And so I stepped over into what I would say more of a synthesized or integrated approach where I take the understanding that. I learned the, the knowledge I gained, the wisdom I obtained from Western medicine and went over to the eastern side and learned about mysticism, spirituality, esoteric practices, philosophy, and metaphysics.

Many different topics and kind of merged them together into what I now do, uh, and how I support people in their ultimate healing.

Chris McDonald: Which we love here on the Holistic Counseling Podcast cuz a lot of therapists listening, some are just on their, starting their journey and moving from traditional psychotherapy of talk therapy, which is the basics of what we do.

And then moving to more holistic. It is kind of that integration, isn't it? Definitely blending. And I love how you said that, the blending of

Bobby Apieron: the two. Yes, exactly. Either extreme is going to be incomplete. Right. So if we can, when we can bring, you know, the dark and the light, the day, the night together, the east and the west, and merge them, take the best from each side and bring them together in one holistic perspective, right?

One whole complete experience. Mm-hmm. Then we no longer perceive the other. Separate from itself.

Chris McDonald: Yes. Cuz everything is connected and you describe yourself as a quantum physician. So this is new to me. Help me out, Bob, you. What does that mean?

Bobby Apieron: So I, I use the term, uh, quantum physician to describe the fact that a physician is one who cures or, or ailments.

Actually the original definition is ailments of the soul or the spirit. Oh yeah. Which is deep, right. I feel that many times, uh, we've kind of forgotten the roots of these words, the roots of what these words mean, and the words have power. So a physician is one who cures or heals ailments of the soul or the spirit.

And so that's what I do. Now, how do, how do I do that? I use my understanding of quantum mechanics, of quantum physics. Now, this word quantum has kind of been thrown around, used, misused, used appropriately, um, to describe many different things, processes, experiences. So the way I use it is as more of a bridge to bring the left brain, the logical linear approach that humanity takes to these experiences and merge it with the right, which would be the feminine energy.

So the masculine and the left, the feminine on the right, and the quantum is now the science, the linear aspect to describe or understand more deeply and more intimately spirituality. So I intentionally. Don't want to make anyone fear or, or feel, oh, well, what's the spirituality stuff, right? What's this?

What's this stuff? Th This is for yogis and mystics and people on mountains. No, I wanna bring it down to the people. I wanna bring it down to the level that we can apply these concepts, apply these practices on our day-to-day lives. And integrate them into our societal human experience so that we can create a better world.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Cause we're all spiritual beings, whether we know it or not. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So tapping into that and, and I think that's true with a lot of people, even think like meditation, you have to be a Buddhist monk or, you know, sitting on the mountaintop in order to do these practices. But you know, it's for everyone.

All these healing practices and

Bobby Apieron: modalities. Yes. And bringing it into the homes. Yes. Right. Like what you're doing, bringing it into the home, into the, into the car. Maybe someone is driving to work one day and there's a something going on with traffic and they run in a little bit behind. How do we regulate the nervous systems that we don't react, we don't become triggered.

By that experience. We can't necessarily always control things outside of us, but we can always look within. Yes. And

Chris McDonald: control our reaction to things. Yes, exactly. So I guess, was there other things about traditional medicine that discouraged you specifically?

Bobby Apieron: Yes. I would say, you know, from the first time. I went into or started medical school, the first exam, it was very much a continuation of undergrad.

So I set myself up for a bit of, a bit of disillusionment there, where I was expecting, you know, this, the gates of heaven to open and oh, all of the, the doctors and the sages throughout generations come forth and welcome me into this fraternity, into this tribe, into this, this gathering, this collective.

And I. Immediately realized that that wasn't, that didn't happen. No. If anyone had that experience, please send my way. I'd love to hear about it. But I, uh, yeah, it was just immediate disillusionment and that kind of spiraled downhill. I would say throughout the rest of my experience, I'm a very much a people person.

I love people. I love working with people. I love spending time with people, hearing stories, and listening deeply, listening to what is causing them suffering. And throughout the process of medical school, I felt that it was a systematic jading process. Almost becoming more and more detached, more and more separate from who I was before medical school and becoming this identity, this, this role, this.

Personage of, of a doctor following, almost fitting into an archetype, right? Like union archetypes and other archetypes. That throwing on the hat or taking the role, the perspective of the doctor in Western medicine requires that we then ascribed to a certain set of beliefs and a lot of these beliefs didn't resonate with me.

So I had gone into this kind of conflict of, oh, okay, well you know, I have to be this way to, to be a physician. But that's not my nature. That's not my

Chris McDonald: approach. What did that bring up in you

Bobby Apieron: emotionally powerlessness? It brought up powerlessness and almost, almost a. Necessitating to be something I was not so a, a victimization also.

Right? I felt I had committed so much time and energy into this, this experience, and it didn't at all turn out to what I thought it would be deceit. I mean, I again put it on a pedestal and that could have been my own perspective, but I can tell you I'm not alone in this. I have many people who I have worked with who feel very much the same way, and they feel stuck.

I mean, I have $400,000 of, of loans. Oh my goodness. That, that I'm gonna have to pay off. So, and I, I won't be making that type of salary that would be able to, to pay that off. Or maybe I will. We'll see. But put it out there. Manifest. Yep, exactly. We'll create that. So clear. Cancel, delete. But yeah, I'll just, a lot of, uh, realizing that, you know, this isn't the way.

And I thought it was the way, it isn't the way. Yeah. I was thinking that, you know, this is the truth. I was seeking truth. Yeah. I was seeking the one right way to live. The one right way to

Chris McDonald: be. That had to be very disillusioning for you. Just that whole process. I'm trying to think of going in there just why I like, yes, this is what I wanna do, and then being like, what the, what is this?

Right?

Bobby Apieron: Yeah, most definitely. And then the step. Deeper than that is the realization or the understanding that I went through that whole process so that I could better understand it so that I could see what was happening. So that I could feel what was happening so that I could know, therefore, gaining the wisdom to be able to move forward in the way that I'm moving forward, to be able to support this current model or to support in creating a new one.

And that's what you did. And that's exactly what I did. It's

Chris McDonald: emerging, but that's so cool though that you didn't drop out. So you went and just went through with it and wanted to learn as much as you could and then taking that and integrating and with these other

Bobby Apieron: learnings and, but it did take me all the way to pathology.

So yes, I became so jaded and being, you know, there are people who don't. Want to heal themselves. Yeah. And it's really hard to help someone support someone who doesn't wanna help themselves for any, any reason that that is Right. Of course. Yeah. And so that's, that's really just exemplary to how jaded I had truly become that I would.

Go all the way from human interaction. You know, family medicine is actually what I was thinking. Uh, all the way to the microscope and looking at the cell, which they don't talk at least in the way that they think we understand. And you like people? I do. No, that's not to say that I could have gone into family medicine and.

Done my own right. That there are many physicians out there who are doing that, and I, I gratefully honor them and I, and I thank them for what they're doing to create true health and healing. Mm-hmm. And I'd like to just take a moment to kind of define what healing Yeah. What is healing, how I use healing.

Right. A lot of people throw around, use that word. Yeah. And what does it mean? So for me, healing is looking at healing and, and kneeling or bringing together all aspects of self. Loving all aspects of self. Meaning we may be experiencing certain creations, we may be experiencing certain manifestations, we may be experiencing certain symptoms, certain diseases, but it's showing love to those processes, to those experiences, those expressions, so that we know within ourselves that there is no separation between the two.

So it's bringing all aspects together into one, thanking the disease. Thanking the symptom for what it is teaching us. That's hard, Bobby. It's very difficult. It is very difficult to

Chris McDonald: do and I think of the mental health too. Like cuz as therapists, when we have people that they push against, right? I don't want this anxiety depre.

I'm just resisting. Resisting it. And that just causes them all the more problems that it's so hard to be like. Thank you. That would be a question mark. I can

Bobby Apieron: see. Oh my gosh. I know that from personal experience, but you know that too. Yeah, I've been diag, I was diagnosed, uh, originally with bipolar disorder and been substance abuse disorder disorder.

So you had your own journey with this and Yes, definitely. And I actually, you know, Chris, it's interesting, my greatest fear going through medical school, even before that, was having a mental health disorder. That was my greatest fear on the planet of my human experience, right? Mm-hmm. And in facing that fear, And eventually accepting that.

Once I was able to accept and release it, guess what? The bipolar diagnosis literally transformed into anxiety. So through a process of understanding, accepting, loving, knowing, Hey, this experience, this symptomology, this expression is here to teach me to face my greatest fear. Once you are able to face your greatest fear, then you can truly be free.

Say that again. Once you are able to face your greatest fear, then and only then can you truly be free for. If you do not face your fear, then that fear will continue. To control your life. Think about it in the case of addiction, right? Yes. So we have people who say, okay, I'm an addict. First of all, what are they doing when they say I'm an addict?

Yeah. I know. We have positive affirmations for a reason. Now that is a positive, negative affirmation. You're creating and manifesting with the spoken word disease. Now, how do most, how is most addiction, you know, recovery treated? It's, oh, I am admitting that I am what? Powerless. Powerless. What if someone's powerless?

How can they ever change How, how can, how do they feel that they have the power to change? Right. And then what's another big part of addiction Recovery is, oh. Deny that substance resist it. But we know from Newtonian physics that which resist persists any force met by an equal but opposite force, right?

Any force that is applied will be met by an equal but opposite force. So when we resist something, all we're doing is actually creating again. Both sides of that. Now, this is getting into the deeper spirituality. This is, this is the deeper understanding of the subconscious mind, of the collective unconscious.

So when one says, I'm an addict, they step now into the archetype of addiction. What's an archetype? It's a God. So now they see that God and the God feeds them, nourishes them with thoughts of addiction, nourishes them with words of addiction, nourishes them with actions, behaviors of addiction. So, and in turn then the addict now will continue to feed the archetype.

And what is our success rates?

Chris McDonald: I was just gonna, I was just, we and you were in the same psychic complaint, I swear. It's like, yes. I was just thinking like, what is the relapse? Cuz I'm thinking of people in my family who's had addiction and the relapse rate is just, what is it, 90% or

Bobby Apieron: something? You nailed it.

90%. Yep. Mm-hmm. And that's, I mean, I think those studies were. But they're recent enough, you know? Yeah. I think it's actually getting worse,

Chris McDonald: so, oh, I'm sure. With the pandemic and, yeah. All that. Yeah. Well, that makes a lot of sense with that. What we resist persists,

Bobby Apieron: and so that's where it's loving the addiction.

What is the addiction actually showing us? And again, you can replace the addiction with any other diagnosis, any other disease. What is this teaching us about ourselves? Because again, the root cause of all disease, like I said, is a perceived separation of cells. So every disease, every symptom, every manifestation, every behavior is just showing us how far away the tension we're creating between ourselves and not cells.

So that thing about, if I had a rubber band right there, it's just gonna pull, pull, pull, pull, pull. Now there are two forces. I can either continue to force it and it's eventually gonna snap. Now I've hit what? Despair. Isolation. Depression, suicidal. Ideation here though, this tension is causing what? The whole time?

Anxiety, stress, separation. So now if I'm able to come back together into myself, then I'm able to be in alignment, an aligned being an aligned individual. As full power. We can think about it too. If I had a pipe, the flow of energy, the flow of light, the flow of water, whatever we want to think of it as.

Again, these are just analogies, metaphors, but I can't have a continuous flow or connection if I'm so far removed from myself. So when we say I have depression, right? We identify with the depression

Chris McDonald: now it or, or I'm an anxious person. I hear that a lot.

Bobby Apieron: Instead of, I'm feeling anxiety because we are not our feelings, we are not our thoughts, we are not we're, we are so much more.

Right. We are. I am. I am Is the infinite. It is oneness. It is knowing that you are me and I am you. It is looking at you saying, Namaste. The divine in me sees the divine in you. Divine in you. Yes. But we can't see it in another until we can see it in ourselves. Think about this mania part of a bipolar diagnosis.

Do you know what mania means in Greek? What's it mean? It's one of the seven perspectives of love. It means obsessive self-love. Now, what have we done in our society? We've taken the word mania, obsessive self-love. There's a beautiful thing we've demonized that we've now just ordered it. The diagnosis.

What about this Diagnois? Diasis? Nosis is to know agnostic, right? Not know. Sonos is to know. De de God to know God. Whoa, mind blown, right? So every time you diagnose someone, you are plain God. You are labeling and identifying that client, that patient, and you are telling them you are becoming the authority, the author.

What does an author do? Right? Story narrative. You're telling them who they are to play in your world instead of allowing them, giving them. The opportunity, the space, the divinity, to choose how they are to author their own experience. I didn't read this in a book. I had to experience this personally.

Chris McDonald: Yes, exactly.

I think that's what's interesting about you is you've had your own journey through this and you're not just, you know, reading something or quoting someone else. It's really what you've been through and learned along the way,

Bobby Apieron: and I'm so grateful for those learnings. If I'd never gone into the darkness, I would've never been able to appreciate how bright it could be.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. So I know you said you talked, we talked a little with diagnosis, so is there anything else you wanted to add about that? I know when we talked before you, you really had a lot to say about that. What does it cause with diagnosis? What happens when we diagnose with clients?

Bobby Apieron: Oh yeah. So think about putting a label on something, right?

We all know what a chicken and a duck is, but say, We grew up in different parts of the world and I was raised to believe that a duck was a chicken, and you were raised to believe that a chicken was a duck. I only know that a duck is a duck because my mom told me that a duck is a duck. You only know that a chicken is a chicken because someone in your experience told you that a chicken is a chicken.

So when I look at that duck and I see a duck, and you look at that duck and you see a chicken, are either of us incorrect? No. We're just incomplete. So it's being able to look at both perspectives. Now, what happens when we are incomplete? So every label, every diagnosis, anyone in the in the DSM fives, right?

And include all physical signs for that matter. Any diagnosis or label that we place on someone, something, it's just a partial truth. So, What is a partial truth, therefore a lie. So to get the whole picture, we must be able to open our minds and open our hearts to see the other's perspectives to again, heal and il all of those perspectives because you're not necessarily wrong or one is not necessarily incorrect for saying, oh, I'm observing these symptoms.

In another. Right. These are expressions. And when you see someone who is, is psychotic, when you see someone who is going through Absolutely through an acute phase, it's like, oh my gosh, what's going on now? Those observations though, again with science, right, that's observations are being made and they've been.

So refined and limited that we have forgotten to look outside the box. So we've forgotten to look at what that individual is experiencing on a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual level. Now, there are many other planes of existence. Those are just the primary four that I use for simplicity's sake.

But what I mean by that is, The physical body may be here, but the emotional body is literally removed. It's not in the body. It can't handle being there. Stories, I think, explain these, these concepts very well. So I had a woman at a retreat that I was running Beautiful soul, and she had just returned actually.

After Covid from foreign country where she was stationed and she came back to the United States first time, completely different. Could you imagine coming back to the United States and not even being here for, she didn't even know what was going on. So she came back and she was like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

I don't, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm doing here. So she came to my retreat. At the retreat. She had an experience where, what I would say psychology would call, you know, an anxiety attack, a panic attack. And to me it was truly, I could see her, her energy. And when I say, see, I don't mean I'm hallucinating.

I mean that I'm observing. Deeply listening and experiencing the difference between who and what I am and who and what she is outside of me, and comparing and relating her experience to my prior experience, because I've been there before, so I could see and I could see that her emotional body was literally, Not present, it was just out.

And so I went in and most people would say, you know, breathe into a bag, or, oh, let's get you to the hospital. Right? She was about to be ready to go to the emergency room, like it was that, that bad. And so then I just had her breathe and I just came in, put my hand on her belly, and had her focus, her awareness on her breath, activating the parasympathetic nervous system, right?

So now we're slowing down regulating the nervous system and allowing that energy to equate. To homeo stays. So I did not put that label or name anything that she experienced. By remaining and keeping it unlimited, she was able to move forward in the day to actually eventually have a mystical experience, a cosmic awareness experience where she realized, became aware of her oneness with all of creation.

Now, imagine a world, Chris, imagine a world where everyone knew. Believed, spoke, acted as if we were one. If I science discovered this 10 years ago, mirror neurons look 'em up. Yes. Tell everyone to look 'em up. I highly recommend this. This will change everything you do about your practice. Really this, everyone listening, this will change everything you do.

Mirror neurons, you know what they do? Yes. If I. Look at you and I judge you, or I condemn you. I project any type of energy onto you. These are your empathy neurons. They will recreate. My body cannot tell the difference between you and me. They will recreate the same physiology, neurochemistry, and biochemistry that I am projecting onto another with my consciousness, with my perspective.

So then it would be who of us for our mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health to look at another. As if they are us. Just like in the body, there are between 37 and a hundred trillion cells. Chris, I can't even fathom that. No. 37 and a hundred trillion cells in the human body, all of them get along except for in cases of what?

Autoimmunity and other illnesses. Right? Other expressions. But let's, let's look at this deeper. What exists on each of these cells? M H C, class one, M, H C. Class one is a receptor. On every cell in the body that recognizes its cells, it is quite literally a cell to cell handshake. It is quite literally a sub to cell.

Namaste. If every cell in our body can do it, why are we not able to do it with 8 billion people, which is far less than the number of cells in the body. So autoimmune disease, therefore then is what? Not recognizing self. Quite

Chris McDonald: literally deep, Bobby, I never heard of it that way before. Not recognizing

Bobby Apieron: self.

So that is actually one of those, that was one of those experiences. I had an aha, an epiphany when someone came to me with an autoimmune disease and I was, at first, you know, I put on my nutrition hat and I said, oh, let me, uh, let me just, See if we can do this nutritionally. And I realized though, that there's a deeper issue and the nutrition is still just kind of a, a symptom.

It's the last thing actually now that I will do for anyone even trying to lose weight. I've been able to support people dropping 15 pounds in a month, just focusing on healing the trauma, not even changing their way. So the physical is the last thing to manifest. It's the most dense. So when we can look at healing and kneeling, focusing on the spiritual, Root cause, by the way, spirit in Latin spirit use, which means breath.

It's that simple focusing on the breath. So when we can heal and kneel the connection between the breath and the body, between the breath of soul, the body, mind, heart, soul, complex connection. When we can unify all of those aspects, then the natural. Energy, the key, the prana in many traditions call it many different things, but there's an energy, a creative force that will organize a higher order that created our bodies.

My wife is actually pregnant. I just had, we just had our congratulations. Thank you. We're super excited. We just had our baby's anatomy scan, so 20 weeks and. That happened actually just 30 minutes before I got on the podcast. Hey, so in that anatomy scan, you know, we got to see, visualize, observe our child, this human life, this physical form coming into being, coming into existence with a heart, which is the first organ to manifest the whole first organ to form in the body at five weeks.

And it has what? Automic cells. Automic cells. That means. It beats on its own. So where does it get that first beat from? Where does that come from? Something that transcends the limitations of our materialistic worldview. So it's finding the beauty in these things. It's bringing the awesome, not in the diluted sense of the word awesome, but in really experiencing the awe and wonder and amazement.

Of our experience not believing that we know everything because to know with the mind is to limit, to limit potentials, to limit possibility. If we believe that we know something, then we immediately disregard, push away all other perspectives, all other potentials, all other possibilities.

Chris McDonald: That makes sense.

I'm still caught up on what you said earlier about everybody that was, everybody knows you're connected and the cell's novice saying each other. I was like, that's such a beautiful image too, and imagine if we did it. It's like we're acknowledging ourselves and other people. I mean, how powerful is that, you

Bobby Apieron: know?

Yes, it would change the world. It's beautiful. Yeah, it is. And you know, sometimes, Kris, one of, one of the things I love about what I do now is I get to tell my students, I get to tell my clients I love them. Yes. I can say that without any limitation. And I can say it and I can mean it, and they know I mean it.

Do you know how many people I've had come to me with diagnoses of paranoid, schizophrenia, bipolar, many, many, many different diagnoses, and physical as well, but who have never had someone tell them? That they love them. Wow. And they're 60, 70, 80, 80 years old, sometimes. Never had one person, Chris, tell them that they love them.

Sad and love is the evolutionary force of creation. Unconditional love to give without needing to receive. Think about L O V E, right? What's the inversion of that? E V O L. Evolution.

Chris McDonald: I love how you use all these word definitions and just, oh, this is gonna be an episode. Listeners are gonna wanna listen to you more than once.

I can tell.

Bobby Apieron: Well, I guess that's a perfect segue into my own podcast, right? Which is, uh, yes, yes.

Chris McDonald: So you started a

Bobby Apieron: podcast. I did. And so that's, uh, called Dr. Decode. And this, that's where I actually do a lot of the stuff that, um, that you're hearing right now, you're hearing me speak. I, uh, go into these words.

I go into these, these concepts, these ideas that are society, you know, or familial, religious, societal constructs that. Existed before, you know, I showed up. I'm 31 years old and a lot of the world that I was born into, I just believe to be true as it was told to me. Right between the ages of zero and seven, we're in a theta brainwave state.

That's hypnotic, extremely suggestible. Everything that we perceive, we believe, then we integrate and program that into our subconscious mind into. Our experience. Did you know by the way that the conscious mind can perceive 126 bits of information per second relative to the unconscious mind, which takes in or subconscious?

Again, these, these words have been kind of, kind of used in different ways, but just think of the conscious waking state, beta, brainwave state versus, um, the theta, uh, deeper unconscious, uh, delta. So the, then the unconscious is picking up 11 million bits of information per second, 11 million. 11 million. So the conscious at 1 26 versus the 11 million, right?

So where do these patterns of belief, where do these patterns of expression that we learn between ages of zero and seven get implanted? Where do these seeds get dropped? Think of a nice, a seed as an idea. What's an idea? An idea, an identity. If we look at it from the religious perspective, an idea, an idol worshiping false idols.

Simply giving our energy and attention to false ideas lies. So when we believe. That we are who others have told us we are. Where is that coming from? The outside world? Everything outside of us. Think about science. What are we taught to observe the outside world? Why aren't we taught to first observe the interplay the inside?

Yes. And understand the outside through our deep knowledge and understanding of the inside.

Chris McDonald: Cause I feel like where you're coming from, it's more you. You really try to empower people, don't you? And help them, lead them to their own self-healing.

Bobby Apieron: Yes.

Chris McDonald: I, how, how does that start? Because, so a lot of people are skeptical and uncertain of that, right?

Bobby Apieron: The best way to bridge the gap between a skeptic and a believer and really the skepticism co in believing comes from an internal process. So it's not that they don't necessarily believe in me or that they're skeptical of me, they're skeptical of their own power, potential, and possibility to experience something other.

And what they're currently experiencing. So all I have to do is hold the space. So when we say holding space and energy healing, it just means, okay, I'm gonna be present and witness. I'm going to send unconditional love. The thoughts that I have in my mind will either be not present, or they will only be focused on vibrating at a frequency of unconditional love, of healing support, meaning that's why we use words like a golden white light.

That's why we use words of, of love, of, of peace, of harmony, and we create this space within us, which then resonates and amplifies outside of us so that another can safely look at themselves much like a chrysalis. So the skeptic then, where does skepticism come from? Our masculine energy, spiritually speaking, and then scientifically speaking, our logical brain or left brain, which is again, Outside of us, project it out.

So how do you bridge the gap or the space between? Between skepticism and belief? It requires the rights of the brain, the feminine energy, and spirituality. This is the dark, the yin, the unknown. The irrational versus the rational, the light, the linear, logical. So the only way to shift the masculine energy, the logic, the reason to a higher order of reason, higher order of logic, is to go through the feminine witches.

Experience, therefore creating wisdom, knowledge, masculine left side of the brain. Logic applied through experience equals wisdom. One can have all the knowledge in the world, but if they don't experience that knowledge or apply that knowledge to support another, experiencing it. The power of it, then none would be the wiser.

And we live in a world with a lot of knowledge, but very little experience. And when I speak from experience, I'm not speaking from a single lifetime of experience. So

Chris McDonald: you believe in past lives?

Bobby Apieron: I believe that there has been sufficient evidence and data to show that that is most definitely a possibility.

And I've had my own personal experiences. I've proven that to be true.

Chris McDonald: And I know you were very kind to offer me a, a healing meditation, which was awesome by the way. And I would love to experience that again someday. But for our listeners, just can you share a little bit about your process with that and what that involve?

Cuz I, I know as experiencing it, I didn't know quite all that you were doing, but, but it was powerful.

Bobby Apieron: Definitely. So when we think about, That 126 bits of information per second on the conscious level, right? That would be equivalent to talk therapy. So attempting to affect the unconscious mind or the 111 million bits of information processing per second with going through a small funnel, right?

A bottleneck. And so when we get into these relaxed stages in. In meditation, in breathing, it's much like a hypnosis, but the energy healing aspect behind it amplifies its power. So it's almost like a, for lack of, uh, a better way of saying it, and to keep it simplified. It's, it's almost like a hypnosis on steroids, but ultimately what you're doing in these energy healing practices, in these spiritual traditions is you're connecting to the universal mind.

So think about the universal mind as. As the mind of all, again, as if you and I rebut neurons in a larger mind. So a collective, right? I think you only called it like the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I think you called it like the collective unconscious. Yes. Mm-hmm. Or something like that. So when we can tap into that energy, that potential, then we know all.

So what is, what is God in, in religious traditions? Omnipotent, right? All powerful, omniscient, all-knowing, omnipresent. Always there always. Was always is and always will be. Now, I'm not religious in a sense, but I just like to bring all perspectives, again, into cohesion, into coherence, so that we can understand that we're, we're not that different, any of us by the way that we see things.

It's just through different lenses, but we're all looking at the same thing. So my, my real goal is to, to bring everybody into that coherence to be able to see what others are seeing. So in these. Healing sessions than in these healing experiences. You know, I call them quantum healing. Quantum coaching.

I'll start out initially by calling on the spiritual energies, spiritual energies. Now these are. When you get deeper into esoteric teaching into Eastern philosophy, different, you know, beta traditions, all of these different traditions, these perspectives have their own names for the same things. So it's just like if I were to say, Chris, I'm gonna shoot you text, and I say, Chris, I'm gonna call you and I go into my phone.

And I click, all right, call Chris. And all of a sudden you answer on the phone, you're there. Right? It's like magic. I mean it's science, but we can all be imagined. So the, the same way that then the Y site. Your computer, my computer is able to pick up a wifi signal. I mean, show me that connection. You can't, can you show me it?

No, no. We can see. We can see the effect of it. Mm-hmm. Right. In the fact that we are able to communicate. Right now, we can see the effect of this connection to these higher energies or the fact of the experience and the effect. That it causes. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So by tapping into these, these higher refined energies, these subtle energies within cells, then we are able to guide, hold space for another to tap into them these ener same energies within themselves, even if they are not trained or tuned to do so.

So that's why many of these spiritual practices, these spiritual healings that. Are effective in that work because people have spent, you know, 40 years, 50 years, and sitting with themselves connecting to these frequencies, connecting to these energies. On a computer we can just type in a, a, uh, a webpage,

Chris McDonald: right, or chat g b t and ask a question.

No, we don't even have to

Bobby Apieron: do it

Chris McDonald: anymore. Absolutely.

Bobby Apieron: So, So that's, that's the biggest step I would say right there. And that's why I spent so much time on it, is to really connect in. And you can only connect into another, to the depth that you're able to connect into yourself. You can only love another to the depth that you're able to love yourself, and you can only know another to the depth that you're able to know yourself.

So connecting into these energies, now we're setting the space. This is creating a coherent, energetic field. So coherence wise, coherence, important coherence. Is when you take waves, you bring 'em together and they are in perfect sympathetic resonance so that the sum becomes greater or the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.

Therefore, doing what? Allowing more energy. So now what we're doing is essentially opening up a channel. This is why they call it channeling, right? You're channeling energy. We are actively opening up. A channel to allow more power to come in. And these are sensory experiences that people will have. They will feel, you know, tingling or they'll feel, they'll feel hotness on their hands or they'll feel a, a tingling sensation or a, a buzzing, or they may have different.

Sensory experiences, but these are all evidence or proof of the effect of that cause. Now, one could say, you know, it's all in the mind, but what isn't in the mind. Al Alchemist believes the mind is all, that's their first principle. All is mind. I mean, we call again, going back to the 37 to a hundred trillion cells in the human body.

What do they each have around them? A mem brain mem in Hebrew means water, memory. Remember, a membrane, a brain, so a water brain. Each cell is its own brain. So cool. So by creating it is, it's beautiful. It's really poetic, isn't it? So by bringing co coherence, Between all of the cells. Now, this is the physical effect, right?

Which is why this stuff works for physical symptomology too, is that by bringing coherence into the body, then the body is able to allow that natural flow of energy to move in it with it through it, so that all of its processes can be carried out in a perfect homeotic fashion. Now, every thought, you know, they looked at the power of thought and.

Don't quote me on this, but I remember looking at a video that was showing some study they did, looking at the energy behind thought. They recorded it, it was a, uh, astronautics experiment, and they had two twins, one staying down on earth at its home base and one going up into a, a rocket. And at a certain point, I believe the one who, uh, one attempted to communicate to the other, but they were already responding to the other before the other had asked the question.

Wow. So thought is en entangled, right? So we can talk about the idea of quantum entanglement. It moves at least, or travels at least twice the speed of light. So when we talk about these subtle energies, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about the energies of thought. That's why many a ancient teachings talk about thoughts, the god's thought.

So powerful everywhere, the thought. So now by getting into the space, we create this space of. Of healing, calling in these energies, and now we walk through an experience where whatever you are experiencing, whatever you're suffering from, whatever you are not happy with what is being created in your life, you now take the responsibility of becoming the creator of that experience.

Now when this stuff doesn't work, it's because oftentimes people have difficulty taking responsibility for what they're creating in their life. And if you're not used to that. Yeah. So that, that is another bridge to cross when working with people is are you ready to take responsibility for what you've created in your lives?

Now, this does parlay with karma, with reincarnation, right? Because maybe you created this experience, but it wasn't in this life. You're like, Racking your mind. Where did I create this? Why would I do this? Yeah, I get that

Chris McDonald: sense

Bobby Apieron: for sure. So it's being able to have the understanding and the awareness that that is a potential possibility created by another.

That's why in the end, it actually doesn't even matter what I believe as the healer, right? As the healer, right. It only matters. What you believe, your perception on that. So using now the power of thought to become the conscious creator of what you are manifesting, of what you are experiencing after the space has been set to be a healing space, and again, it's the intention that is carrying the power.

Now we move into, okay, I'll take responsibility for this. What does this look like? Outside of a 3D plane, we're multidimensional beings. So what does this, what does this manifestation, this experience, this symptom, this pattern of behavior, this relationship to myself or to. Someone or something outside of me, substance, person, place, thing, situation, circumstance, idea, belief.

What does that look like? So we can bring in the creator aspect to take the energy of this experience filtered through platonic, our communion, solids, the ego, the filter to manifest into form. So what does that look like on another plane of existence? And that's why I'll have you or the client student then create that and ask you guy, do you prompt you on?

Okay, what does this look like? For instance, right? It could be a a square, a blue square. I usually like to keep it simple on a 2D plane, but we could expand this out to really anything, and this is where you get to create your experience. Now, what does this do? On the, on a deeper, deeper level, you now know that you have power over what you've created.

So now you're taking responsibility for what you've created. If you've created it just like this podcast, right? You created this podcast. Yes. It, it ends. When you say it ends the entire thing, you ha you have that power. I don't have that power. So how the podcast moves, how it expresses, how it unfolds, how it evolves is primarily your responsibility.

So think of the podcast, right? Perfect analogy, metaphor, just for any disease state, if the podcast isn't going the way you want it to go, go in, take responsibility for it and say, you know what? I wanna go this direction. So, same exact pattern for our life with relationships, for our, our life with disease states, with symptomologies.

It's just realizing that we actually have the power to change those things instead of giving it away. I love

Chris McDonald: that. I feel like you, you need your, I hate to say the word church, but something comes to mind like, you need a, a place to, to preach this, so maybe to your podcast. That you're gonna take responsibility.

Right.

Bobby Apieron: Isn't it amazing that church, by definition, is body, Chris, is it

Chris McDonald: okay? Mm. Yes. But I know you mentioned that you have training opportunities, so if listeners are interested in learning more from you, so where can they

Bobby Apieron: find that? Yeah, I've got my link tree, uh, link I sent you. Is that gonna be available?

That'll be on the show notes, yeah. Awesome. So then they can go ahead and click there, and I've actually got an empowerment call on there that's a free 20 minute call with me, uh, where we can go ahead and, and discuss, uh, the different things that I offer and how I could best support you in evolving your practice to become a more holistic and comprehensive approach to healthcare, to mental health and wellness, to really creating freedom, really creating wholeness within self and, and others, and giving people an opportunity to see that there is another way.

And we don't have to keep, it is another way. Yes. We don't have to keep doing what we've been doing. Right. We don't have to feel like we're stuck. We can move, we can, we can evolve, we can grow. And sometimes that can be difficult. But I want you to know that I'm here for you. I'm happy to support you in any way that I can.

Chris McDonald: Yes, and I believe you. He is awesome. So definitely reach, reach out to him. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This was

Bobby Apieron: amazing. It's such a lovely experience. I'm so grateful to be here, Chris. Yes,

Chris McDonald: and that wraps up another episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. If you're a new listener to the podcast, I wanna say welcome as a listener, you have access to my free nine part email course, how to Build Confidence as a Holistic Therapist.

In this course, you'll explore different holistic modalities. How to boost your confidence as a holistic therapist and how to manifest your practice. You'll also get bonuses including a free script to teach yoga in session and journaling prompts to guide you through. So go ahead and enhance your holistic journey today.

Go to holistic counseling podcast.com. Scroll down and enter your name and email address today. And once again, this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light in love. Till next time, take care. The information in this podcast is for general educational purposes only, and is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guest are giving legal, financial counseling, or any other kind of professional advice.

If you need a professional, please find the right one for you.