Episode 126 How To Become A Holistic Therapist: Interview with Nicole Osborne

Jun 21, 2023

What are the steps you need to take to become a holistic therapist? What skills, knowledge, and credentials do you need to acquire to become a holistic practitioner?

MEET Nicole Osborne

Nicole Osborne is a Honolulu-based licensed holistic mental health therapist and owner of Milk & Honey Therapy, Milk & Honey Coaching, and Milk & Honey Merch. She has over 10 years of combined experience serving as a coach, mentor, teacher, and counselor to individuals of diverse backgrounds. Nicole loves to use creative and holistic approaches to help her clients overcome anxiety, depression, trauma, athlete concerns, low self-esteem, life transitions, and identity development issues. In all of the work she does, her deepest desire is to empower people to show up as their authentic selves and remind people that they have a unique purpose. 

Find out more at Milk & Honey Therapy and connect with Nicole on InstagramFacebook & TikTok


  • What is holistic therapy? 5:08
  • What are the steps to becoming a holistic therapist? 17:02
  • How to decide which area of holistic therapy you want to go into 35:35

What Is Holistic Therapy?

  • Incorporating mind, body, and spirit and layering holistic techniques
  • The importance of learning awareness and connecting with yourself
  • What is the goal of holistic therapy?
  • Holistic therapy vs. traditional therapy

What Are The Steps To Becoming A Holistic Therapist?

  • What are the education requirements to become a holistic practitioner?
  • Graduate school program comparisons and requirements
  • Structured learning experiences through practicum and internships
  • What does the licensing process look like?
  • How much does it cost to receive training in other holistic modalities?

How To Decide Which Area Of Holistic Therapy You Want To Go Into

  • The importance of research and self-study
  • Putting holistic practices into your everyday life and finding what works for you
  • Where to find resources when becoming a holistic therapist
  • The importance of mentorship 

Connect With Me

Holistic Training Series

I am offering CEUs now for my Holistic Training series (which was called my Holistic Webinar series) The courses are Startup Strategies for Integrating Yoga into sessions, Ethical and Legal Considerations in Holistic Counseling, and Self Care Boundaries for Therapists, You can take one, two or 3!  You get a discount if you purchase all 3!!!

The Art of Breath; How to Integrate Breathwork Techniques for Effective Sessions

Coming up June 30th at 2:15-3:45 pm!

Have you wanted to integrate breathwork into your sessions but are unsure how? Join me on a remarkable journey as we delve into breathwork techniques and how to integrate them into effective therapy sessions.  

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Resources Mentioned And Useful Links:

Find out more at Milk & Honey Therapy and connect with Nicole on InstagramFacebook & TikTok

Somatic Psychotherapy Toolbox


Chris McDonald: Are you wondering how to become a holistic therapist? Maybe you did some research but just aren't sure what steps to take. In today's episode, we'll be diving into the foundational principles, the training and education needed, and the key skills and qualities that make a successful holistic therapist.

So grab your favorite herbal tea, find a cozy spot, and open your heart and mind as we embark on this enlightening exploration of how to become a holistic therapist. Let's begin. This is holistic counseling, the podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence.

I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. Today we delve into the world of holistic therapy. If you've ever wondered how to become a holistic therapist and embark on a transformative journey of healing, growth, and connection, then this episode is for you. Joining us today is a former amazing guest, Nicole Osborne, from episode 84, where she discussed walk and talk therapy and outdoor play therapy.

Nicole is a seasoned, holistic therapist who has dedicated years to helping individuals on their healing journeys. She'll be sharing her wealth of knowledge and experience giving us an insider's perspective on the profession, and offering invaluable guidance to aspiring holistic therapists and all of the work she does.

Her deepest desire is to empower people to show up as their authentic selves and remind people that they have a unique purpose. Welcome back to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, Nicole.

Nicole Osborne: Thank you, Chris. I'm happy to be back. Thank you for asking me to come back and speak about a new topic,

Chris McDonald: and can you share about how your journey started as a holistic

Nicole Osborne: therapist?

Yeah, so just as a therapist in general, my journey started back in high school. Um, I've told this story to people before when I've done interviews, but basically I had friends and family members that I knew about who were struggling with their mental health, and then some people contemplating whether they wanted to live or not, and some people completing that action.

And so with, with hearing about people's mental health struggles, I knew I wanted to be able to help in some way. And so for me, I thought I was gonna become a teacher, and I thought that's how I was gonna serve the community and help kids and teens support their mental health in that way. But after going through undergrad, um, and after graduating, I was like, oh, I think I wanna be a teacher.

And I signed up for Teach for America, and then I realized like, actually, I don't wanna be a teacher. Funny enough, my first job out of college was being a teacher, and so I was like, actually, I don't wanna be a teacher. I went into one of my students school counseling classes and I was like, this is exactly what I want to do, like I want to be a school counselor.

And so then from there I was like, all right, gonna apply to grad school and. Uh, did the school counseling track and the clinical mental health track. But I later decided after I graduated that I didn't wanna be in the school system, that I wanted to focus more on clinical mental health. And so that's how my journey started.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. We have so much in common. It's, it's kind of scary. Cause I, I had the school counseling route now I did follow through and was a school counselor mm-hmm. For 16 years. But, but yeah. That's interesting that you had both though. So both school counseling and clinical.

Nicole Osborne: Okay. Yeah. So if I wanted to become a school counselor, all I would need to do, you could still do that.

Take the test. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would just need to take the test and that's it. But as of right now, I don't, I don't think I have interest in going back into the school in that way. I wanna serve the schools, but just not in that capacity. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: So what interested you in the holistic aspect?

Nicole Osborne: So I grew up an athlete.

I played sports from ages seven all the way to 21. And so sports and movement were a big part of my upbringing. And then I also did dance for five years. And so I've always really been in tune with movement, in tune with my body in that way. And so for me, Being a holistic therapist, I think I started to realize like I wanna incorporate the body and spirit.

Uh, when I was in grad school, I actually had a university supervisor who was in training to become a somatic experiencing practitioner. And so she talked about it incorporated into supervision. I was like, oh my gosh, this all makes sense. I was like, this is what I wanna talk about. This one I wanna do. Um, I had dabbled in mindfulness and meditation a little bit, but really hadn't done it consistently.

So kind of on and off. And I've done other movement-based practices, but once I realized like, yeah, somatic body, it all makes sense. We carry stress, trauma, emotions, wisdom in our bodies. And so I wanted to be able to share that with my clients and to share how it's had an impact on my life personally.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, no, I could see that. So we're gonna back up the truck for a minute because I know that, uh, in this episode we're gonna talk all things holistic, becoming a holistic counselor or therapist, whate, whichever term you wanna use. And so, but let's just start with what is holistic therapy? Because I just gotta tell you a quick story.

Locally, I don't know a lot of holistic therapists. I know a few. So I had put out, um, an Excel spreadsheet just for other holistic therapists to fill their information for referrals. And several people that are like, what is a holistic therapist? Mm-hmm. Therapist group. So I was like, what? Right.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: Let's start there. So can you share what, if you, how would you define holistic therapy?

Nicole Osborne: Hmm. How would I define holistic therapy? That's a good question. I would say holistic therapy is incorporating the mind, body, and spirit. I know some people just focus on mind, body or mind and spirit, um, whatever it may be.

But I feel like for me it's all three components. And so I would say a therapist who focuses on like body work and somatic work, and then talking about breath work, meditation, um, and. Obviously there's a whole bunch of different, they're holistic therapists modalities, so I can't name every single one of them.

But I think for me, just incorporating the body and helping people get more connected to their bodies, knowing that, um, when we become more aware of our bodies, we become more aware of ourselves. And so for me, that's a really important piece. And then also spiritually has somebody who grew up spiritual spirituality is important to me in the sense of being connected to God.

So helping people be connected to, you know, their source or God or their higher power, whoever it might be. And just helping them become, again, more in tune with that spiritual aspect of themselves so that they can become a more aware of themselves in general. And so when you're more aware of yourself and your identities and who you are, you can become more confident, um, and live out your values and your purpose.

And so for me, I think that's what defines holistic counseling and holistic therapy. I love

Chris McDonald: the word connected, that you threw that in there too, and really connecting to yourself and spirit, whatever that is for you. And yeah, I think that's a, a term that's so important with holistic therapy.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah, definitely.

Connection. Definitely. Yeah, I, I definitely agree. I think we grew up in a world unfortunately, that we become so disconnected from our mind, our body, and our spirit. And so we grew up in grind culture and hustle, culture and capitalism that we just become so disconnected from not only ourselves, but then also other people around us.

And so to be able to reconnect with ourselves and reconnect with our spirits and reconnect with other people is just so important. And just it leads to a more fulfilling life.

Chris McDonald: Absolutely. So what is the difference? I know some listeners may not know the difference between holistic therapy and more traditional therapy.

Mm-hmm. So can you talk about

Nicole Osborne: that? Yeah, I would say more traditional therapy. I would say that's what's typically taught in grad school or what you typically see on tv, which is just, you know, strictly back and forth talking. I would say that's the biggest difference. Whereas with holistic therapy, you might talk more about like sensations and mindfulness and grounding into your body and things of that nature, and talking more about sense body sensation.

So like when you feel that emotion, what do you notice happening in your body? Whereas with maybe traditional therapy and everybody's style is different, you might just talk about like logic. Logic or you know, just the mind like, okay, how can we shift that thought or how can we change that narrative?

Whereas holistic therapy, I think, goes a little bit deeper.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, that's been my experience as well is, is it really brings more to the table than just talk therapy. Talk therapy has its place, but, but I feel like for many, and I've had clients say this, that it's not enough for many people and they want something more.

Or they have their own spiritual or, you know, other cultural practices that align. With more holistic practices, right? Because I know you touched on some of the other modalities. So I think for our listeners to remember that there are tons of different modalities. Hmm. That we're not gonna name 'em all here.

So, so that's the beautiful part is there's so many ways we can integrate, right? Yeah.

Nicole Osborne: And I think that allows room for creativity. So knowing that, um, you know, how I was taught in grad school, it didn't, there was, there was some room for creativity, but I think with holistic therapy you can be, uh, more adventurous in a sense and try new things and experiment in session.

Um, whereas with maybe traditional talk therapy, it's just kind of like, you know, very direct and maybe not as expansive as, you know, holistic therapy goes.

Chris McDonald: And I can see with your body language that when you just say, just stop there, that you're, you're just like, oh my gosh, if I had to sit and just you talk therapy all the time, I don't know what I do.

Nicole Osborne: I know. Well, it's funny cause last week I did a, it was a business coaching session and um, it was another therapist coaching me and I could tell she was using I Fs, which I feel like is also kind of a somatic kind of therapy. And so we're talking about my different parts that were coming up when it comes to my business and she was like, I'm just gonna give you a second just to drop into your body and see what comes up for you when you think about that one part of yourself.

And I just started bawling. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, um, and so I think that's the power of dropping into the body cuz I feel the tears welling up, but she gave me space to sit in it rather than, you know, keep talking logically. And I was able to just sit in it. Yeah. And like allow, you know, whatever emotions or narratives were coming up for me.

I'm so

Chris McDonald: glad you said that. Cause I think that it's slowing down, isn't it too? Cause sometimes in talk therapy, people can just keep rolling. Mm-hmm. They just keep talking for oh, 53 minutes and Right. You know, they're not even processing really what's happening and what's going on in the present moment.

So it is kind of that here and now, isn't it? Mm-hmm. What is coming up for you? And sometimes I do that with clients. I'll be like, okay, we're gonna stop for a moment. Mm-hmm. And see what's there. Exactly. And really tuning in.

Nicole Osborne: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's so powerful. A bigger part of it is just slowing down. Like I said earlier, we're in such a fast paced society that we disconnect from our emotions and we just focus on logic and the next step and the next thing that when we really take time to slow down, check in with our emotions, our body sensations, there's gonna be other things that come to the surface.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I love that. Other things that come to the surface isn't that allowing space for that to

Nicole Osborne: happen. Right? Yeah. And I think also, and that's the magic, right? Right. And I think also some people outside of being a therapist don't know how to hold space. So then people don't feel safe enough to sit in that space and so they avoid those emotions or they suppress them.

Yeah. Or they're afraid people are gonna invalidate them. So I think that's the beauty of just therapy in general, but also holistic therapy. You're allowed to feel, cuz some people have been taught you're not allowed to feel this way or cut off from your emotions and just work or do whatever. Um, so I think it's also about creating that space in that atmosphere.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, absolutely. Setting up that environment for them. And, and can you talk again? So what are the holistic modalities you like to use?

Nicole Osborne: Mm-hmm. So for me, I like to use, uh, talked about this on your last podcast, but walk and talk therapy. Yes. I haven't been able to do it, um, in Hawaii just yet. I'm getting licensed in Hawaii, hopefully by the end of this month or next month.

But by the time this podcast comes out, hopefully I'll be licensed in Hawaii. So walk and talk therapy. Um, so basically therapy and nature, you go outside with your clients and it's kind of just like talking with a friend in the park. So you go outside, you walk back and forth, you walk on a trail and it's just, Just talking.

Um, that's basically the simplest way to put it. I also am trained in E M D R, um, so helping clients regulate their emotions and process trauma through bilateral stimulation and then brain spotting. I'm also trained in that as well, so using a pointer to help people target certain memories and certain traumas and emotions.

So where we look impacts how we feel. And then I've also have some trainings in like traditional somatic experiencing and I'm, hopefully we will. Be starting somatic experiencing training? The official training, oh, in September. Um, I've been wanting to do it for a really long time. When I first learned about it in grad school, that's what I, I use some pieces of somatic experiencing and then I do breath work and meditation with clients.

And then sometimes I'll have them do a little bit of movement. So I'll just say, Hey, just take a moment, see what your body needs right now. You know? Do you need to massage your shoulders? I know for me right now, I've been having some shoulders. I see you're massaging your shoulders. Yep. Yep. So do you need to massage your shoulders or, you know, using different mindfulness practices such as mindful eating?

So I've actually had clients bring their favorite snacks to session and I'm like, Hey, we're gonna do mindful eating today. And I have like a whole little script and we just walk through mindful eating, so various mindful practices in that way. So I would say those cover the majority of, of what I do with clients.

Yeah. And

Chris McDonald: it sounds like a lot of variety too, which is amazing cuz you can custom that for clients based on what they need and Right. And I'm glad you mentioned EMDR and brain spotting, cuz I think some people wouldn't consider them holistic. Mm-hmm. But for me, I, I use brain spotting as well. I, for, to me that's, they're both holistic and really going a bit deeper into the deeper parts of the brain for healing and

Nicole Osborne: Right.

Exactly. Yeah. I I definitely consider them holistic because it's not a lot of talking. So with EMDR and brain spotting, at least the therapist isn't doing a lot of talking. It's mostly the client processing out loud verbally if they want to. Um, but it really helps you tap into the body. Cuz a lot of times I'll just say like, Hey, you know, we've been processing or brain spotting or whatever you've been tapping or doing the bilateral stimulation, like what are you noticing in your body?

So it's not me asking logic of like, oh, what happened? It's like, no, like what, what happened in your body? What sensations are you noticing right now? So I definitely think it's a holistic modality. Yeah,

Chris McDonald: for sure. And I call it holistic layering too, when we use several different kinds of what, I don't know if you do that in sessions

Nicole Osborne: too.

Yeah, yeah. What does that look like?

Chris McDonald: So it could be just as an example. Well, I used to have, when I had in-person, I would use some essential oils. Mm mm-hmm. With clients and I, you know, I'd have some lined up and have a diffuser on and just have them pick one. Or I'd say, you know what? I think this might be helpful for you.

This, I don't know, whatever it might be lavender. And have them just put a little bit on their wrists and smell it. But then also incorporating how do you feel about doing some breath work today? Or doing some movement and kind of incorporating different layers of holistic, more than one modality session.

Yeah. Shall we

Nicole Osborne: say? So, Yeah. Yeah, that sounds like something I would do or something that I do do. So I think I add bits and pieces and components, and I think for clients who aren't aware of their body, I think psychoeducation is important. So just even talking about like, what is a body sensation? Here's a list of body sensation words.

You tell me which ones stand out to you. And then that, that also helps start the conversation because when the therapist says like, what are you noticing in your body? Some clients are like, what do you mean? And they go straight back to logic. And I'm like, no. Like what? What sensations like do you feel any tightness, any tension, things of that nature.

So I think I've had a couple clients who didn't even know, like the language for somatic or, or body-based work. So I think that's also an important piece. Yeah, I'm

Chris McDonald: glad you mentioned that. Psycho-ed is just such an important part of all this and mm-hmm and I think so much that, that clients really, it, it does help them heal more too, to understand, whoa, wait a second.

So I'm not crazy, right? It's just my nervous system might be dysregulated, right? And there's things I can do. So again, that's empowering, right? Cause they can figure out what to do in the moment once you teach them those skills. So, yeah.

Nicole Osborne: Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I, I've talked with clients and we talk about their traumas and giving them that psycho-ed on trauma in regards to like, yeah, the reason you couldn't make that decision is because your brain was shut down and your nervous system was dysregulated.

And that for them is really validating. It's like, oh shoot. What makes sense, why I responded or reacted this way. And so we talked through, you know, that and having more grace and self-compassion. And so even from that lens of trauma and you know, just your nervous system education, people are like, oh, this makes so much sense.

Why, why this thing happened.

Chris McDonald: Absolutely. It really kind of clicks for them too. Mm-hmm. Yep. Exactly. Well, let's get to it. So I know that you mentioned that you've had people that even in high school, mentioning interest in becoming a holistic therapist. And what are the steps to get there? So let's say that nobody, somebody that doesn't have a degree, doesn't have, you know, maybe a high school diploma.

What do they do? Where did they go?

Nicole Osborne: Yes, I have. I, last night when I was prepping for the podcast, I had, I have literally wrote them all down as best as I can remember. Excellent. It's, um, so yeah, I can go through the steps and then you can tell me whether it would be appropriate to talk about maybe some of the costs.

I can talk about the cost afterwards. Sure. Or just general cost, um, just so people can be aware or, or mindful of what that might look like. So if they're planning for their future. But as far as the steps go, I would say in high school, You know, you're just a high schooler, so there's no, no need to stress about the future, um, what you're gonna do and what you're not gonna do.

When I was younger, I thought I was gonna be a scientist, um, and a teacher. And so I am neither one of those in a sense. But I do think that counseling combines being a teacher and a science. I was gonna say that at the same time. Yep, exactly. Exactly. When I, once I reflected on it a while back, I was like, oh, I am a scientist and a teacher.

But all that to say in high school, just be a high school would be a teenager. But if you do have access to, um, psychology classes in high school, so I know for me, I took AP psychology so that. Was kind of the foundation of what, when I started learning about therapy. And so learning about psychology or even learning about education in general, but might be something that might be of interest to you.

And then if you're in high school, you can also volunteer. So you can volunteer at mental health centers or education centers, or just being in the community in general, like the community you wanna serve. So for example, if you wanna serve the domestic violence survivor community, you know, working with that community and attending those types of events, I think those are important.

So it can also just be volunteering that you do. So after you go through high school, you graduate, you can go into different fields. So for me, I decided to study psychology that was my major, but my husband, who is also a therapist, he majored in sociology. So those two fields are typically the most popular when you're thinking about becoming a holistic therapist.

So you're gonna go to school for four years. You can do some additional things like becoming a research assistant. We're again doing some volunteer work related to social work or psychology or counseling, but I would say in undergrad, those are probably the important or key pieces to think about. So I don't know if you want me to elaborate more on that, or if you want me to go to the next step, go the next step.

Next up. All right. So for after you graduate undergrad, I would say that is when you can either think about going straight to grad school, if it's accessible to you and you have the finances, or if you know for a fact that you want to be a counselor or therapist, you can just go straight to grad school.

Or what I chose to do is to take, uh, two years off. So I wasn't for sure what I wanted to do. So I decided to take, I guess a gap year. And I worked in a school and then I also worked in retail. So one of the retailers I worked for was big on wellness. And so that wa gave me some more knowledge of holistic therapy and things like that, and introduced me to mindfulness and different movement practices.

And so I would say getting experience in any kind of like wellness industry, whether that's in retail or whether that involves becoming a personal trainer, things of that matter. Um, I know that might sound kind of off, but that involves the body and things of that nature. And then after that, You have to go to grad school because that's what's required as of right now.

So going to grad school,

Chris McDonald: typically, can you just, can I just stop you right there real quick? So if somebody has a bachelor's in psychology, so tell me why they would need more education. Can you talk about

Nicole Osborne: that? Yeah. So as far as getting a bachelor's in psychology, you definitely need more education because psychology just gives you kind of like the foundational, like they teach you about Freud and they teach you about different like theories.

I'm trying to remember everything. Like I learned just about like the basics of being a teenager and brain development and child development. So you only get like the basic foundations. I wasn't taught anything about how to be a therapist in undergrad. So I think that's important to know that like even though you have these foundational skills and knowledge, that's not enough in regards to becoming a therapist or becoming a holistic counselor.

And so that's why it's important that you have to go to grad school and you can't get jobs without. Yeah. And sadly if you wanna be the, I know, right, exactly. And sadly, like, well, I guess, yeah, it is sad because a lot of jobs, um, even with talking with some of my clients, they're like, oh my gosh, this job that I want, even though it's not exactly a therapist, but it's something to do in the psychology field.

Like, I want this job, but it requires a master's. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I ran into that too. So it's like, nowadays everything requires a master's where I think before you could get away with, you know, just having a bachelor's for some jobs, not for being a therapist, you couldn't become a therapist with just a bachelor's.

But that's a big reason why some people get master's because a lot of jobs are saying master's required or three years of experience required. So that's, that's why grad school is important. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And so as far as the actual grad school piece, Typically you go to grad school for two to three years, depending on the program.

My program was a full-time program, so I was able to knock it out in two years. So by full-time program, that means it's typically like your nine to five like all day program. Whereas there's some programs that are strictly evening programs and so that's why it might take a little bit longer. Um, and with the different programs, you can get your master's in counseling or some people will go straight to the PhD route, which I don't know.

And I, Chris, you can answer this. I don't know if people can go straight from bachelor's to PhD when it comes to counseling. I don't know if you know about that. I'm not sure if that's,

Chris McDonald: yeah. Cause I went school a long time ago, so I don't know if that's changed


Nicole Osborne: Yeah. Yeah. So I believe you have to go to the Master's and then go get your PhD or cd, but I could be wrong.

But yeah, you go to school for two years and you wanna get training as a clinical, uh, mental health counseling program. For me, mine, like I said earlier, was dual degree. So I was able to get life or masters in both school counseling and clinical counseling. I don't think my program offers that anymore, but you definitely wanna make sure it's in some kind of clinical counseling.

And so when you're in grad school, you're gonna have a number of different classes. I can't remember all of them, but you're gonna have family counseling, you're gonna have diagnosis, you're gonna have just like the foundational skills of counseling. You're gonna learn about diversity and inclusion when it comes to counseling.

And so there's a number of different classes, ethics, career counseling, things of that nature. Statistics, yeah. Oh, I didn't have to take statistics thankfully. Um, I was How did you manage? I took I think two statistics classes in undergrad, which me and maths do not get along. I know it seems to be a lot of

Chris McDonald: people in this field.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. So yeah, you might have to take statistics. I do remember taking a research class in my program, my master's program. So you're gonna take a number of different classes. Usually the classes, I think now they're making them all 60 hour programs. Um, I know some programs are still 48 hours, but typically I think now they're making them all 60 hour programs.

So it's 60 hours, two years. And throughout your counseling, uh, program, you're gonna have practicum, which is basically where you either go into the field or go into a setting where you practice your counseling skills or you shadow people, like you shadow a supervisor or you sit in on a session. So just to start to learn how to become an actual counselor.

So you do practicum, and then you go into internship, which is, for my program, it was 600 hours between two semesters. So you had to get 300 hours in the fall semester, and then 300 hours in the spring semester. So that's what the gist of grad school typically looks like. Yes.

Chris McDonald: You need to take a breath.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. Cause grads a lot. Yeah. That was, that was a journey. And now I'm trying,

Chris McDonald: my brain's trying to

Nicole Osborne: go back now to that. Yeah. And I graduated in the pandemic, so that was a whole nother layer. I was like, oh my gosh. Like this is, wow. Yeah. This is something. Um,

Chris McDonald: yeah. Great. Plus, well, and I graduated. I'm glad you mentioned the credits cuz I have 48.

Mm. I was lucky because I, before they changed 'em all to 60, you know? Mm-hmm. So it was very different. In my program, we could only do school counseling or clinical. Mm. Okay. So I actually have a master's in education. Mm-hmm. So my route's a little bit different to get to licensure, which it is possible. So for those that might be school counselors, you know, and they just, just know it's possible to

Nicole Osborne: still go that route.

Yeah. And even if you graduate with a school counseling degree, you may just need to take additional credits, more additional classes, I believe. Um, I had my supervisor who was a school counselor and she was interested in going back for clinical, uh, mental health counseling. I think she would just have to take a couple more classes, which I know kind of stinks.

It's like dang thought. Yeah, of course. I done with school. I was done with school, absolutely. But yeah, it's, it just depends on the program. But if you know, you for sure wanna do clinical counseling then, then go that route and then after that, after you go through grad school, which is a lovely experience and I'm being sarcastic cuz it was very challenging.

Yes, of course. Mm-hmm. Then you're gonna get licensed. And so your school and or your program will help you to walk through the licensing process. I'm not gonna explain, you know, what exactly that looks like, because it's different for every state. But they're gonna want your transcripts, they're gonna want your, oh, you have to take the N C E, which is a four hour exam.

So it's basically like a cumulative exam of everything that you, I would like to say, quote unquote learned because a lot of what I studied wasn't actually on the test. And that's not to scare people, but it's to, that's the say. That's right. It's just the purple book that they tell you about. It's helpful, but everything wasn't on there.

And there was some stuff that was like, wait, what the heck? But I knew from my experience that I could, you know, apply that knowledge and answer the question. So that's not to put any fear in, in people. Well, that's something that's important. So, yeah, you get licensed by your licensing board. For some, uh, states you become an associate.

So where you have to get an additional 2000 or 3000 hours. So for me, in North Carolina, after I got my license, I was an associate and I had to get 3000 hours in order to become fully licensed. And I'm excited to share that I'm now fully licensed, so congratulations. Thank you. I completed my 3000 hours and a hundred hours of supervision.

Can you

Chris McDonald: talk what that means?

Nicole Osborne: 3000 hours? Mm-hmm. So 3000 hours. So for North Carolina you have to get clinical practice outs after you go to grad school. And so that was 2000 hours of direct hours. So working with clients, doing sessions one-on-one. That was 2000 hours that I had to do. And then for the other thousand hours, that was indirect hours.

So those are hours of doing notes, doing admin, things of that nature, doing research for clients in my sessions. And so combined, that's 3000 hours. And then so once you complete that, then you can um, with supervision. Yeah, with supervision. So you have to find a supervisor. So that's a hundred hours of supervision.

So that could either be individual supervision or group supervision or it ha a combination of group and individual supervision. And so I think they put limits on how many hours of group you can do. But I did all of mine as individual hours, um, because I wanted that one-on-one personal experience with my supervisor.

So that is what the 3000 hours is for. It's different. It might be different for other states and things like that.

Chris McDonald: And isn't there different, I think sometimes people get confused with all the acronyms. North Carolina, we switched from LPC to L c I always have to remember L C M H C listens, clinical mental health counselor, and I'm an S supervisor too on the end.

Uhhuh. So other states are, there's different ones isn't there? As

Nicole Osborne: far as, yeah, yeah, for Hawaii. Yeah, Hawaii, it's L M C H. So they took out the, they don't have the C like we do in North Carolina, so it's just licensed mental health counselor. So it's, yeah, it's different for every state. And I guess, yeah, I guess it doesn't, doesn't matter as long as like you're practicing within your license in the state.

But if you want to get licensed in a different state, like me, like being licensed in, almost licensed in two states, I had to go through the Hawaii licensing board and apply all those hours that I did for North Carolina. I applied those to Hawaii. So you just have to be mindful of each state has a different requirement, but hopefully the counseling compact goes through where you don't have to do all of that.

So yeah, counseling compact, be really clutch. That would

Chris McDonald: be really cool. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. And there are other licensures too, if some people go the social work route, right? Yeah. The L C S W, licensed social worker and L M F T, which is licensed marriage Family. What's the T now? I forgot therapist. That therapist.

I was like, wait a second. What's tft?

Nicole Osborne: Yeah, I'm trying. My husband is the healthiest. W so he had a similar process as me. His 3000 hours were just 3000 hours total. So like his wasn't just broken up into direct and indirect, so he just had to do the same process where go to grad school, get license, he went into an agency and got his hours.

Whereas for me, um, in North Carolina, you can open up your practice as an associate. So I never got agency experience. I actually kind of, sort of did in, um, my grad school experience, but I just jumped straight into private practice and I was able to get all my hours through my private practice, which was a blessing.

Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think after that. So this is the part where I would say this is where like kind of more, the more holistic piece ties in, um, or comes into play. So in grad school I wasn't taught, and unfortunately, hopefully things have changed a lot about holistic modalities. So, um, and this could be different for my classmates, but I don't remember hearing about like, talking with clients about nutrition or sleep or like even having a class saying like, okay, like these are some great holistic practices for sleep or for eating or for movement.

Um, it was mostly just kind of like the cbts, the motivational interviewing. Things of that nature. Problem solving. Yep, exactly. And then if I didn't have my supervisor who was in training to be a somatic experiencing practitioner, I don't think I would've learned about it until later on. And so I hope that grad schools now are incorporating those things, um, and seeing how important holistic counseling is and adding holistic approaches.

So I would say after you get licensed, then this is when you can start to dive into some different trainings like E M D R or brain spotting or if f s or becoming some kind of, uh, movement, uh, teacher or, um, exercise teacher or anything like that, becoming an s e p. So, Those are all additional trainings that you have to pay out of pocket.

But in grad school, I do have some classmates who took brain spotting training and they were able to get a student discount. Oh, so you can't take some of these trainings as a student, you just have to pay for them yourselves. And so I couldn't afford to pay for them myself, and I know some of my classmates couldn't, so I wasn't able to take advantage of the student discount rate.

But that is something to be mindful of. If you are a student, you can take some of these courses or some of these trainings as a grad student.

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Yeah, that's good to know. So what is the cost of some of these trainings? Because I know people talk about a lot of these cool modalities, but

Nicole Osborne: Yeah, the cost, um, The cost.

It's an investment, I will say that. So as far as the cost goes, uh, for grad school, for me personally, this is gonna be different for every state and whether your, your university is private or public. So I paid about, I would say $30,000 for grad school, but for undergrad, that's, again, that's gonna vary as to how much that's gonna cost.

So you have to go through undergrad and that costs, I don't know, bajillion dollars. It's just costs so much that it's all over here for, for undergrad. So go to undergrad, pay that amount. And the grad school was about $30,000 for brain spotting because I was an associate, the program that I went through, they offered a discounted rate for associates.

So I paid about $525 for brain spotting. If you're a student, it was $400. And then if you were fully licensed, it was about $645. Right. That's gonna be got a discount. Yep. That's gonna vary from whatever instructor you go through or program you go through. So the prices are gonna vary on this. For emdr, that one was hefty.

Um, how much is emdr. Mine was 9 75, I believe. Yeah, it was 9 75. And so that one was definitely a Hef. Is that the initial That was, was for just doing the basic, what was it? How many, how many sections is it? It's for, they only do like one, one kind of like phase, whereas brains spotting, there's different phases.

Yes. But for EMDR, it was just like you get, you do all of it. That included consultation hours and everything. But if you wanted to become certified, then you have to pay more money to get the additional trainings and things like that. So that's how much that cost. And then to become a somatic experiencing practitioner, this one's even heftier, but it's about like $10,000.

And that's just for the trainings. That doesn't include, Ooh, wow. Consultations. Or the personal sessions you have to have. So I don't know the actual amount. So it's probably maybe closer to 12,000. I don't know. Don't quote me on that, but just from the website it says $9,530 just for the training. Wow.

That's more than

Chris McDonald: yoga training. Yeah. Yeah. I always thought yoga training. So for su subtle yoga, when I did that was, I'm trying to remember the total amount cuz they, the way they did that was, um, she broke it up like for intensive, like four day weekends. Um, we did several and then some one or two days and then we broke it up into the following, like almost like a semester, if you think of it as a student, to do a four day weekends.

Once a month or four months I think. So I think it was 3000 something a total, which that's about right. For yoga training if

Nicole Osborne: you have. That's what Ive seen. Any kinda, yeah. Yeah. I've seen around $3,000 for yoga teacher training.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So this brings me to the question of, okay, there's all these wonderful holistic modalities.

Mm-hmm. But there's a cost, isn't there? Yeah. So how do you decide like which direction to go in? I get this a lot from my supervisees

Nicole Osborne: as well. Mm-hmm. Ooh, that's a good question. Yeah. I would say do, I would say Google and YouTube have a wealth of information and I also listen to a lot of podcasts. So I don't want people to get discouraged in regards to, like, I can't be, I can't consider myself holistic if I don't have these trainings.

I think that's not equitable and that's not fair. Um, yes, these trainings are great, but I do think you can learn a lot from just your own self-study and your own personal practice. Not saying that's gonna cover everything. Um, but I learned a lot from YouTube and I learned a lot from reading books and listening to podcasts.

So Chris, like when I found your podcast, I was like, Yes. Where has this been? Lots of knowledge. Yes. I was like, this is amazing. So I, I wanna make sure that I talk to, to people who this may not be accessible as of right now, and not to think that you have to graduate from grad school and get these trainings immediately.

Like I know some people, they wait years afterwards to get these trainings. So I don't want people to think that I, in order for me to hol be a holistic therapist, I have to have all these trainings under my belt. That's, that's just not equitable and fair. So I would say in regards to where you can start is starting with like mindfulness and meditation, your own movement practices.

That's a good place to start. And then going on YouTube and looking up EMDR sessions and what that looks like. Looking at brain spotting sessions and what that looks like again, for somatic experiencing, um, what that looks like in session. And then if it's accessible to you, maybe even trying it with a therapist.

Like if you can find a therapist yourself who's trained in any of these modalities, that's good idea. Yeah, like I would say trying it out with a therapist who's trained in e MDR or brain spotting or whatever it might be, so you can get hands on experience and you can notice how it feels in your body.

So like, did that feel good in your body to do M D R? Or if you're able to try both, like which one felt better in your body? And then maybe going that route and saying like, okay, like I preferred brain spotting, so I'm gonna get trained in brain spotting.

Chris McDonald: And I also wanna just say that there are shorter trainings available.

Mm-hmm. If you wanna just, I did um, the brief, there was a somatic experience saying it was like a three hour. Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's called the intro training, but Oh yeah,

Nicole Osborne: yeah. I did

Chris McDonald: that one. Mm-hmm. So it is a little bit more affordable to do that and brain spotting. They sometimes will have the self spotting training that is as much less expensive.

More affordable. So just know too, you can get a taste of some of these trainings if you don't know if you wanna dive in headfirst. Cause it's hard to know if you're not sure if you're somatic based or, you know, just try to experiment and just, right. Learn like, like Nicole said, just see what's out there and you know, maybe try some things because there are some things online.

You're right on. YouTube is such a great resource. It really

Nicole Osborne: is. Yeah, yeah. YouTube and podcasts, like, there's just so much free information that you don't have to start out paying for it. And again, books, that's a low cost way as well to, to either get an ebook or buy it, uh, online. So I would say trying those out first.

And then also if you come from a marginalized identity or community, they also, a lot of these trainings are trying to become more equitable in offering discounts for people from marginalized identities. So I would say if you come from any of those backgrounds that you can look into scholarship options.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I was gonna say, there is some financial help. I know I have a fellow therapist who's a veteran and she's able to get discounts too. So, you know, just whatever your situation is, just don't be afraid to ask. Sometimes we do need that help.

Nicole Osborne: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And, and also because I've had potential therapists and aspiring therapists and students in college, uh, they've reached out to me via email, like saying, Hey, like, I love what you offer.

Like, can, do you have time in your schedule to just talk to me about like, what it's like being a therapist or some of the modalities that you use. So don't be afraid to reach out to a therapist even if you can't see them as, as being a client. Um, just learning more about the field in that way and seeing if they wanna meet for coffee or meet virtually to learn more about just holistic therapy.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and I think that's a great way to make connections and really get your feet a little wet too. Just kind of get, the more information you have on this, the better and. Not to overwhelm yourself either, but, and I think, don't you think Nicole just taken it step by step? Just what is one area? Don't take all this on it once.


Nicole Osborne: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Chris McDonald: Like, because you do gotta do, continue education each year. I don't know what it is for Hawaii, what they have, but in North Carolina. So it's 40 hours. Yeah. 40 hours. And we gotta to do in other licensure also require that. So, so choose carefully, I think, and what

Nicole Osborne: you wanna look at.

Yeah, and for me, I, I started out with the YouTube, the podcast saved up money and was able to, I think in 2021 I did e mdr and then that was the beginning of 2021 and then the end of 2022 I was able to do brain spotting. And then hopefully the end of this year I'm able to be a S se or start s e p training.

So you, you know, just take it step by step. You don't have to cram them all into one session or one year. I don't think that would be good for your nervous system to do. No, definitely not. That would overwhelm you. So yeah, just taking it step by step and not thinking you're behind or have to compete with other holistic therapists.

This is a lifelong journey of becoming a holistic therapist. And just like how I tell my clients with coping skills, some of these coping skills are gonna work for a season, and then another season you're gonna tweak them or change them or try something new. So just being open to the possibilities. Yeah,

Chris McDonald: I like that.

Being flexible that even if you learn something and decide it's not for you, that's okay. Yeah. Sometimes we gotta grow and we change out of it, you know?

Nicole Osborne: Exactly, exactly. So

Chris McDonald: do you recommend getting a mentor in the field? Do you think that would be helpful for listeners?

Nicole Osborne: Um, Mm-hmm. I do. I do recommend people get a mentor, especially if you are just starting out and trying to learn more about just therapy in general.

So if you're a college student, I would recommend getting a mentor, so a therapist that you are inspired by or aspired to be. I would recommend getting a mentor. And then if you are a therapist who's been practicing for a while and you're starting to explore holistic practices, I would say getting a mentor would be a great, like a great partnership.

Just being mindful that some people now are trying to. Trying to decipher whether mentorship or coaching is what people need. And so some people think it's important to be paid for their time, and so just being mindful that if somebody says like, yeah, I can be your mentor, but there might be a cost. So maybe not getting offended by that, but just understanding that, you know, that is a valuable relationship.

And there might be some coaching aspects, but there are some people who are willing to do it for free. Like for me, I mentor a couple college students in the sense of like, I'll meet with them one-on-one every now and then, but it's not something that's ongoing. And I know financially they wouldn't be able to afford that, but I don't think I would charge anyways.

But yeah, I think getting a mentor would just be a great way to just bounce ideas off each other, ask questions, have somebody you know, metaphorically hold your hand through the process. And I think it's a really good resource.

Chris McDonald: So Nicole, um, can we shift gears for a second? Mm-hmm. So can you share what would be a typical day for you as a holistic therapist?


Nicole Osborne: A typical day. So if there is that such a thing. Yes. A typical day for me, and this doesn't happen every day and I don't wanna make this sound idealistic, but a typical day for me would look like waking up and doing some kind of movement. So recently I've been going on a walk, um, at a nearby park.

And so I go on a walk in the morning and I listen to a podcast or I talk with my friends via Snapchat, which is very funny, but, Talking to friends on my walk or things like that. So doing a little personal walk and talk myself. So I do that in the morning and then if I have time, I'll come back and stretch or do some meditation and some prayer.

Usually the first thing I do when I wake up is I pray. So I pray, then do some movement, um, whether that be stretching or going on a walk. And then I come back and what happens after that? I come back, shower off and then eat breakfast. So I like to eat, you know, a smoothie in the morning and then some other kind of side.

So eggs and toast, and this is getting in the nitty gritty, but that's basically what I eat. And then after that, I kind of get my day started. So I'll check emails and respond to emails if I have time to, or I'll respond to them later. And then I'll start my client sessions typically. And so I'll usually see about three to four clients a day, and I'll be using different modalities, uh, with different clients depending on who the client is.

So I'll use e I haven't done EMDR in a while, but when I was doing it, I was doing em some emdr, some brain spotting. So now I do mostly brain spotting and other somatic practices and mindfulness and breathing in sessions. Then I am not gonna lie, don't do my notes the same day because I just, I'm pretty tapped out after that.

So I know I probably could if I really wanted to do my notes right. No judgment after that. Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm not even gonna pretend like I do. Um, that wouldn't be honest, but I do my notes after that. And then after that, I'll close my laptop and I'll probably watch some TV for a couple hours, eat dinner, wind down, um, if I have time to, or if I make time to, I should say, meditate, pray, and then go to sleep or do other components of my wind down routine.


Chris McDonald: thanks for sharing that. That's a, that's a good picture. Now, you know, you said four clients. Yeah. So what is a, what is typical do you think, for a therapist

Nicole Osborne: to see? Mm-hmm. Oof. Is there typical? I was gonna say, I don't know if there's a typical, I think I was talking to a therapist this past weekend. I had lunch with them and they were like, yeah, I see six to seven clients a day.

And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I've, I've done that a couple times. This was when I first opened my practice and didn't have the greatest boundaries yet. And so I saw six clients, usually three days in a row. And my body was like, girl, what are you doing? Like this is not it. So I started off seeing six clients a day, but for typical therapists, I don't know.

I think it also depends whether you work in agency, community agency work versus private practice. So community agency work, you might have a requirement to see that many clients a week or financially. You have to see that many clients a week to meet your financial goals. Present private practice, you have a little bit more control over your finances, so you can see fewer clients at a higher cost.

And so I'm blessed and thankful that I'm now able to see about three to four clients a day, four days a week. Um, and that feels really good to my body. That sounds ideal. Yeah. Yeah. How many do you see a week, if you don't mind me asking? Usually

Chris McDonald: per day, like four to five is my limit. And I've really tapered down my schedule to you to fit more of my life and what I want.

But I do schedule a day just for like a podcast day. It's more flex day too. Yeah. Cause I don't see clients five days a week. And I think that's the other thing is some, some therapists don't, they take Fridays off or you know, everybody's different what they do. But I think the average I hear is like five to six a day.

Mm-hmm. But, um, agency people often have 26 to 30 required sessions a week. Wow.

Nicole Osborne: So you gotta do the math. Yeah. I'm not good at math, just me neither.

Chris McDonald: Or some group practices too. So yeah. So yeah, that's, that's where

Nicole Osborne: it varies. Yeah. My husband, when he worked in community agency, it was, how many did he see? I think he saw maybe 22 a week.

So his was maybe on the lower end of a typical agency. But yeah, his was 22 week and I remember he was just exhausted cuz he worked as a school-based therapist, uh, most of the time. So he would go into the school Oh wow. And see a lot of his clients. And it was a lower income school, so it was just a lot of trauma and high needs and so that was really taxing for him.

Yeah, that

Chris McDonald: sounds like it. But I think you gotta just pay attention to yourself and what you need and what you can afford to do. And private practice does offer that luxury of, you know, I can decide by schedule and when I'm gonna see clients and Yeah.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. And I think an added component to not just being a holistic therapist, but a therapist in general is, you know, creating other streams of income to help with that.

And so if you're a holistic therapist, there's actually a gap in the market for holistic products and holistic therapy. Like even last night I was doing research on, you know, how to become a holistic therapist. Nothing really came up. It was like, how to be a holistic health coach. Um, which I was like, no, I'm not talking about coaching.

I'm talking about therapy. But there's really a gap in the market. Like, I couldn't find, um, like I knew how to, the steps of becoming a holistic therapist, but I wanted to double check to make sure I wasn't missing anything. But I could not find like, you're right. Step by step do it. And so I think for you to have this podcast, it's gonna fill that gap in the market.

Um, hopefully. And just helping people. Yes. And just helping people figure out like, okay, I know I wanna be a holistic therapist now how do I do it? So it's, the reason I brought that up is that if you're a aspiring therapist or current therapist and you want other streams of income, you can create holistic therapists products or become some kind of like holistic health coach or um, do a podcast like Chris or do trainings and courses.

So there's just not enough information on holistic therapy and holistic modalities. Yeah. Even though it's becoming trendy, I still don't think there's enough information out there. I think you're right.

Chris McDonald: I'm glad you mentioned that, cuz you know, I'm offering some courses now because I feel like there is a gap of, it's so hard to find holistic trainings.

Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of 'em aren't. Um, the continued education credits we need, they're not always approved. So then it's, it just becomes even trickier cuz then you gotta do extra credits on top of what is approved for licensure. So. Yeah, I hear you. Cuz I'm doing one on breath work coming up, um, this month that we're recording in June.

Cuz I, I, I had to learn a lot of that on my own. There wasn't a lot of information out there and I. You know, took some shorter trainings over the years and yoga training of course, but Right. I think you're right. There is just, there's a lot of missing parts.

Nicole Osborne: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think another component, me being a black female, there's very few just black female therapists in general, but even fewer holistic Oh, yeah.

Based black female therapists. So if you're a person of color listening to this podcast, I recommend that if this is your, and I think you're about to ask me this question later, but like the calling piece. But if you feel called to become a holistic therapist and you're a person of color, I, I say do it.

There's just not enough of us in the field, so, absolutely.

Chris McDonald: And not enough in the, in the yoga

Nicole Osborne: field either, for sure. Right. Yep. Yeah, like even when I used to go to yoga classes and other movement classes, I'd be one of two or one of one women of color or just a black person in the whole class. And I'm like, what's going on here?

Like, why is there not enough? And I know for some people's access and some people, they don't feel safe in these spaces. And I know now a lot of yoga classes are trying to become more trauma informed and just other movement classes in general are trying to become trauma informed. And so I think they're, they're starting to understand that there's a big gap and there's a lot of people in the community that don't feel included.


Chris McDonald: Yeah. That's a whole other podcast episode.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah, I was about to say, that's a whole, that's a whole other thing. Inclusive. A whole other piece. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. No, for sure. But, and you also have some holistic products, right? You have some Yes. Merch. So yes, I can, can you share about your cards? Cause I was so excited about

Nicole Osborne: those.

So cool. Yes. Yes. So I have two decks of cards. So me and my husband created. Our two decks of cards. One is for like everyday people, and the other one is for athletes since we're both former athletes. But the whole premise behind creating this deck of cards was we wanted to make holistic therapy more accessible.

So our cards are called the Holistic Therapy and Wellness Cards. And so we saw that there's a gap in the market, that there's not a deck of cards that encompasses self-reflection, journaling prompts, um, affirmations. Uh, actual concrete skills that you can use. Um, and so we basically took all of our therapy skills and our holistic knowledge and put in a deck of 72 cards.

And so it has over 150 different holistic wellness tools and techniques that you can do. And so we wanted to make holistic therapy more accessible and also get people a starting place like with holistic therapy. Like I said earlier, there's so many different options and modalities, and so we wanted to get people just a starting place.

Like, Hey, just start here with these cards and then see what works for you, see what doesn't work for you. Try incorporating some of these holistic practices and techniques, and also have conversations with people. So that was another reason why we made the cards because some people don't know how to talk about mental health or don't have knowledge on holistic therapy.

And so we also wanted them to be conversation starters. And so we sell our cards on our websites, and so we have one for athletes and one for regular people. The athlete one is pretty similar to the regular one, but it focuses more on sports performance.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. No, I appreciate that. So listeners, that's something for you to think about too.

Yeah. That's how can you spread the word on holistic counseling and get more information out there, but in a way that you could bring in another income? Yeah. Cause that's the other option, right? Once you become licensed, then you can really kind of narrow that down too. Mm-hmm.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah, and I actually learned a lot from, there's a really good workbook on Amazon.

Um, I think it's something along the lines of Somatic Therapy Toolbox, and it talks about, it has over 125 tools and techniques. And so that's a good place to start. If you are curious about how to become a holistic or somatic based therapist, I would say that workbook is a really good place that you can use for yourself and then also incorporate with clients.

And so I learned a lot from that workbook and I think I, we can put that in the show notes too. So yeah, I learned about, uh, a lot from that. And I think I heard about it from my supervisor who's a somatic experiencing practitioner. Yeah. So I

Chris McDonald: know you mentioned the calling part, so that, that is a question.

So do you think this is a calling and not just a career

Nicole Osborne: choice? Hmm. Yeah. I, I do think so. And so I guess before I answer that question, maybe I should answer the question, but what would you say is the difference between a calling and a career choice? Hmm.

Chris McDonald: She put it back on me.

Nicole Osborne: I didn't mean to,

Chris McDonald: I think it, it's very like heart and soul, right?

For me it's just like, it's deep. It's not just like I need a job to make money. Hmm. And just to support myself. To me, it's just such a deeper pull and, and I don't know if it's just something that connecting with your true self that is more of a calling, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm thinking holistically, what would that be?

That would that, to me, that's what it feels like that I'm. Meant to do

Nicole Osborne: this in some way. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I, I think it's a calling for me. Um, I always knew that I wanted to, and I know this is very general, but help people, but I think once I tapped into being a holistic therapist, like it just, it clicked.

Like I felt it in my spirit. I felt it in my gut. Like I would get excited to do somatic work. Like even when I do workshops and trainings, like I always get excited to talk about the somatic piece or the holistic piece, and so I, I just, I just get excited about it. And so for me, I don't think I would be as excited if it, this was just a regular job.

I'd be like, okay, like this piece, let's talk about insurance. Right, exactly. This, this pays the bills. Yeah. Like I'm, I live comfortably. Like everything's fine. Yeah. Like, it'd be like, okay, like that's cool. But I think for me it's like that higher level awareness that I'm, that I'm walking in my purpose and that I know that this is saving people's lives.


Chris McDonald: Walking in your purpose, saving people's lives.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. Powerful stuff. It is, it is like it's, it's life changing for people, just being able to tap into just their bodies and tap into, I guess more, I wouldn't say simple things, but basic level things is like going back to eating. Like I know for my clients, like eating was a challenge.

Like because of their anxiety or their depression, they couldn't even eat, they couldn't even sleep. And so giving them psychoeducation on here's some holistic tips on how you can sleep again or how you can eat, um, I think that's been life changing for a lot of my clients because again, People don't know the basics of like, where do I start?

And so going back to my therapy card deck, we talk about sleep, we talk about nutrition, we talk about ways to just like these simple practices. So start with creating a nighttime routine. Start with incorporating, uh, mindful eating into your daily life. And so I just think there's, yeah, there's just a, I just know it's a calling and it's a purpose that's literally, it's not only changing my client's lives, but changing their family members and their friends' lives.

I can't tell you then, Amount of times I heard my clients say like, okay, like now because I've been in therapy, I'm, I'm telling my parents about therapy or I'm, my mom's starting therapy, or my friends are starting therapy. I've even had clients share a free resource that I created, um, that how to Feel Your Feelings Guide, so How to Feel your feelings in Five Steps.

I've had clients say like, this free resource changed my life and I shared it with my, uh, spiritual godmom and things of that nature. And so it's, it's just been cool to see that this is not only impacting my clients' lives, but the people that they touch as well.

Chris McDonald: That's a good point. I didn't even think about that.

It's like a ripple effect, isn't it? Mm-hmm.

Nicole Osborne: Yeah. Yeah. But I'm glad

Chris McDonald: you mentioned the, it's almost passion you were talking about earlier too, just getting excited and, and I think that's for our listeners to really reevaluate, like what makes you excited and gives you that joy and just, for me, it's like fulfilling.

Mm-hmm. It just fills me up from head to doe. Yeah. And just, and you hear that saying lights you up, but that's the

Nicole Osborne: truth, isn't it? Yep. I was gonna say that lights you up. Have you ever had that moment for yourself where you realize like, I'm, I'm in my calling, I'm in my purpose. Like, have you, do you remember any distinct moments like that?

It's probably

Chris McDonald: when I am like teaching therapists, I, that's the other part of what I do. I just love it. And when they, I see that they're getting it, it's just so exciting. Mm-hmm. It's so cool to teach cause I teach therapists yoga in these practices

Nicole Osborne: and yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, for me, I'm excited to, I'm doing more speaking engagements now and so I submitted a proposal for a conference about somatic therapy, um, and somatic self care.

We we're so much LA Did you do the


Chris McDonald: thing? Cause I'm, yeah. I'm doing trauma informed yoga then North Carolina, what is it? L C N C conference in October.

Nicole Osborne: Nice, nice. Yeah. I submitted the proposal for usc, which is my alma mater. Good. And so I was like, I was like, oh, they're talking about like wellness, like.

Let me throw in some somatic holistic stuff, cuz again, there's a gap in the market. A lot of people don't know about it, so I was like, hopefully they, they see it and they're like, oh, this sounds cool. Or We've never had a presentation like this. So I'm starting to dabble more into speaking and doing workshops for people.

Yes. Wow.

Chris McDonald: This has been a lot of information. Nicole, this has been

Nicole Osborne: wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for giving me the platform to talk about this. Yeah. This has just been an honor to be invited back and to be able to just spread more knowledge and awareness. So thank you for giving me the space.


Chris McDonald: Thanks for coming back on. And that wraps up another episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. If you're a new listener to the podcast, I wanna say welcome as a listener, you have access to my free nine par email course, how to Build Confidence as a Holistic Therapist, which is a change from my other course, which was becoming holistic therapists.

They're a little bit different now, but in this course, you'll explore different holistic modalities, how to boost your confidence and how to manifest your holistic practice. You get additional bonuses, including a free script to teach a yoga asana, and journaling prompts to guide you through. So go ahead and enhance your holistic journey today@holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

Scroll down and enter your name and email address today. And this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light in love. Until next time, take it.

The information in this podcast is for general educational purposes only, and is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guest are giving legal, financial counseling, or any other kind of professional advice. If you need a professional, please find the right one for you.

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Self-Care for the Counselor - a holistic guide for helping professionals by Christine McDonald , MS,NCC,LPCS