Episode 104 How To Introduce Holistic Modalities To Clients & Build Confidence To Integrate Them Into Session: Interview with LeNaya Crawford

Feb 22, 2023

How do you ethically and confidently integrate new holistic modalities into your practice? Why is it so important to embody new healing modalities when introducing them to your clients?

MEET LeNaya Crawford

LeNaya Smith Crawford is a Holistic Mental Health Educator and Expert, Licensed Therapist, Holistic Healer, and Wellness CEO on a  mission to make Holistic Mental health and Healing accessible, inclusive, and relatable. 

She earned her Bachelor’s degree in Psychology with honors from The Spelman College and holds her Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapy with a specialization in Spiritual integration and Trauma Therapy. In addition to her degrees, she is an advanced certified Yoga, BreathWork, and Meditation Guide (ERYT-500), Trauma Informed Facilitator, Sound Healer, Business Mentor, and International Teacher. 

LeNaya specializes in Holistic Mental Health and Healing, which she defines as “the return to wholeness through integrating practices of the mind, body, and spirit.”She believes that in order for us to truly heal we must address all layers of self: physical, energetic, mental, emotional, spiritual, and communal”

With over a decade of experience in the Mental Health and Wellness space, LeNaya takes a Science and Soul approach to healing and is passionate about helping her community HEAL, LEARN, and GROW. She is a sought after Mental Health and Wellness Expert and has been featured on several platforms including the New York Times, the Huffington Post, and Healthline. 

As a leader in the Holistic Mental Health space, LeNaya created The Holistic Therapist™ Academy: a certification and immersion program that teaches Therapists and Mental Health Professionals how to use the therapeutic power of Trauma-Informed Yoga, Breath Work, Energy, and Sound Healing to help clients heal from anxiety, depression, and trauma. It is a comprehensive program that helps Mental Health Professionals integrate these practices in an ethical and confident way, while building thriving businesses centered on purpose, holistic care, and community. 

She is the creator of The Holistic Healing Circle™, a community for women  who help and heal, ready to prioritize their self care and healing, holistically, MIND, BODY, and SOUL. The Circle features an online membership, international and domestic retreats, and products to aid you on your journey to embodied living and wholeness. 

LeNaya is also the Founder and Clinical Director of Kaleidoscope Family Therapy + Holistic Wellness and  Co-Owner of Seviin Yoga + Yoga School, in Atlanta, Georgia.

Find out more at The Holistic Therapist and connect with LeNaya Crawford on Instagram, Facebook & Twitter




  • The benefits of combining breathwork & sound healing 3:22
  • How to start integrating sound healing into your practice 10:20
  • How To use sound healing & breathwork in a trauma-informed way 13:53
  • Integrating different modalities into your practice ethically & legally 18:55

The Benefits Of Combining Breathwork & Sound Healing

  • Understanding what state your clients are in and using breathwork and sound healing to find a safe space for them
  • How can you introduce breathwork into your practice?
  • The importance of embodiment when integrating different modalities into your practice
  • A look at some breathwork vest practices
  • Examples of combining breathwork and sound healing

How To Start Integrating Sound Healing Into Your Practice

  • The importance of taking a deep dive into “chakras”
  • A look at sound healing results in clients
  • How to set your clients up for success when starting sound healing
  • How to have an open dialogue with your clients when introducing new modalities into your practice

How To Use Sound Healing & Breathwork In A Trauma- Informed Way

  • How to ensure that your space is set up in a trauma-informed way for clients
  • Allowing your clients a place to make decisions for themselves
  • How to lead your clients while still allowing them autonomy
  • The importance of setting a brief framework for your clients

Integrating New Modalities Into Your Practice Ethically & Legally

  • Approaching new modalities that are within your scope of practice
  • The importance of creating your own personal practice with new modalities
  • Why you should be open to feedback from your clients
  • The benefits of seeking training from therapists that have utilized the modalities that you plan to integrate into your practice

Connect With Me

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Resources Mentioned And Useful Links:

Find out more at The Holistic Therapist and connect with LeNaya Crawford on Instagram, Facebook & Twitter


Chris McDonald: Have you been wanting to introduce holistic modalities, like breath work or sound healing in sessions, but are unsure on how to get started? Are you afraid to integrate holistic modalities for fear of legal or ethical implications? In today's episode, you'll learn strategies on how to introduce breath, work, and sound healing effectively, and we will address your fears of using non-traditional modalities in.

This is Holistic Counseling, the podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I am so excited to be here with today's guest, Crawford. We have so much in common. I told her it's like a marriage . Her and I coming together, and I know that you as a listener, will love her. She created the Holistic Therapist Academy, a certification and immersion program that teaches therapists.

How do to use the therapeutic power of trauma informed yoga, breath work, energy, and sound healing to help clients heal from anxiety, depression, and trauma? It's a comprehensive program that helps therapists integrate these practices in an ethical and evidence-based way. Welcome to the podcast, Linnea.

LeNaya Crawford: Yay. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And can you share more about yourself and your work?

LeNaya Crawford: Yes, absolutely. So I am a licensed marriage and family therapist, as well as an advanced certified yoga meditation and breathwork teacher. I'm also a sound healer, international teacher and wellness, c e o.

And I am on a mission to make holistic mental health in healing, accessible, inclusive, and relatable. And I just have to say, Woohoo. . . Yes. Yes. So that is, that is my mission. All things holistic mental health in healing.

Chris McDonald: I know it's like you're talking about me. . . I love that . I know. Oh gosh. That's why I was so excited to have you on the show today.

Cause I was like, yeah, that's like, there's so many of the same things we talk about and teach and yes. It's amazing. It's hard to find other therapists like that, you know?

LeNaya Crawford: That's so true. The community of therapists that practice the way that we do is really small, and so, you know, through your podcast, its the work that I do.

I think the goal is that more of us really come to the surface and start to integrate this work.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, exactly. And that's the whole point, isn't it? Of what you do, what I do, just to promote this and get it out there and help build that confidence with these practices and building that community piece. I don't know about you, but I think that's been the hardest part, is finding other people, connecting with them so that we can feel like we have support of each other.


LeNaya Crawford: That community factor is so important and I think that, you know, through the trainings that I offer, really emphasizing the community piece and being able to continue the community even after the trainings and after the gatherings, because not many therapists practice the way that we do. And so being able to yes, you know, hold each other accountable and offer feedback is really invaluable.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, for sure. So, Can you share how using breathwork and sound healing can be beneficial in therapy? How both of those,

LeNaya Crawford: absolutely. Yes. So, you know, as therapists we. Definitely understand that our clients come to see us in the sympathetic response. They're usually coming in to alleviate some sort of distress, some sort of anxiety, so on and so forth.

And so the power of breath work and sound really allows us to, uh, help our clients create safety within their body, and then it'll help create safety in the mind and allow them to feel safer and more connected as they process the things that they're going. So I think that sound, healing and breath work are, in my opinion, essential in this practice of healing and holding space for our client.


Chris McDonald: let's talk about breathwork. So what are some ways that therapists can start to introduce that into practice? Cuz I know I hear from a lot of listeners who are afraid to take that first step.

LeNaya Crawford: Mm, yeah, absolutely. So first thing is get training in these modalities, right? Get training in these modalities before you start to introduce the.

Um, I'm also a big believer in embodiment, right? And so typically many of us who became therapists didn't have a consistent therapy practice or, um, go to therapy consistently before we became therapists. But in this work of integrating these holistic practices, I'm a big believer that you should also be practicing these things for yourself consistently because it allows you to hold.

In a confident way because you know how it feels in your body and you can articulate what, what might come up for your client. So that's really important there. But I would also say that when it comes time to introduce practices like breath work or even sound, is to make sure the client understands what it is and how.

It'll help them along their journey. I don't think that breath work and sound is something that you just pop up one session and say, Hey, let's try this breath work practice. Right? I think it's something that you wanna give some psychoeducation around, and I think it's really important to connect the client's experience, right?

So whatever they're coming to see you with. So whether it's anxious moments, whether it's difficulty communicating, whether. You know, difficulty reacting. Um, instead of waiting to respond, you wanna connect it to a real life situation that your client might be experiencing. And then introduce how the practice of breath work or sound could help them not only in the therapy room, but outside of the therapy room.

Chris McDonald: That makes a lot of sense to really connect it to like, if they are more reactive and how this can help them to open that window of tolerance so they're less reactive.

LeNaya Crawford: Yes, absolutely. You know, because a, a lot of the students that come into my programs, they've, you know, they've experienced a breathwork practice on their own or they watched a YouTube video and liked how it felt in their, in their body, or, you know, they read the latest research saying that, you know, practices like breath work and energy can really help calm our clients nervous.

And then they just decide to introduce it in session. And so I think it's really important for us to have some training, have some embodiment and then some psychoeducation around these practices before we implement.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and I, I can imagine too that if somebody doesn't embody it, that it can feel awkward and that's gonna come across to the client and it's not gonna go well.

No. Which I, I don't know if anyone else has done this, but it wasn't breath work. But I know I, I did something before. It might have been a meditation, I didn't properly. Read it before, and then I was all awkward during it and I was like, oh my God, this did not land at all. the way I had hoped. So yeah, really feeling that practice and knowing it in yourself

LeNaya Crawford: first.

Yes, absolutely. I hear stories all the time, right? Like, They tried to implement a practice and they're like, man, this was just so awkward for me and the client I've had, you know, clients come in and say, yeah, my therapist tried to do that breath work thing, but eh, it really did. It wasn't really smooth.

Right. So I hear that all the time and you know, that goes into what you're talking about, that embodiment, making sure that we're engaging in these practices ourselves before we implement.

Chris McDonald: What are some of the breathwork practices that you like to teach? Yeah,

LeNaya Crawford: so my very favorite breathwork practice that I think is really beneficial.

Introducing breath work to a client or someone who's, you know, never done breath work before is even. And so even breaths essentially is taking the same count of inhales, uh, through the nose and the same count of exhales through the mouth. I typically start with four because I think four is a good number where it doesn't feel overwhelming for someone who's not used to practicing, but it's also grounding for someone who has a consistent breathwork practice.

So inhaling through the nose for a counter four and then exhaling through the mouth for a counter four is one of my favorites to start with.

Chris McDonald: So not getting too complicated initial.

LeNaya Crawford: Yes. And I think that's the thing that, you know, trips a lot of therapists up. That's true for the four, eight breath. And it's like, no, maybe no, you've never that long, ever in their life.

And this is supposed to be relaxing and calming. So

Chris McDonald: yeah. I'm so glad you mentioned that cuz you hear that all over the internet and 4, 7, 8. I'm like, I can't even do that and I'm trained in this and do this. Yeah. Practices all the time. So No, no, no, no. Yeah, I hear that it's, it's so hard to, to jump right in and do that, but that's what I learned in my training is too, is kind of going, guiding them a little bit more Gently.

LeNaya Crawford: Yes. Slow yes, right. Slow. Right, exactly. And eventually, right. Working your way up to those practices and also understanding if your client never is able to exhale for eight counts, that is okay because it's really. What it's doing in their bodies and for their nervous system.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, exactly. And what about, um, sound healing?

So what do you like to use for sound healing? Cause I see some bowls there. Is that what

LeNaya Crawford: you use for some ? Yes. Uh, so I love of love sound healing. It's one of my favorite modalities and I often use breath work and sound healing together. But the quartz crystal sound bowls like you see back here, those are my favorite to use.

I love the way they sound, the, the feeling of the vibration off of the bowls and they also translate really well virtually. So that's my, those are my go-tos, but I also love to implement like Himalayan bowls as well. Rains sticks and the little zhi bells that you see back there as well. Those all come together to make a pretty great experience in

Chris McDonald: my.

So what is that like? So sound healing and breath work together? Yeah. So you, you play a ball and then introduce breath work. How does that.

LeNaya Crawford: Yeah, so typically I might, you know, introduce a breathwork practice at the beginning and that breathwork practice they'll use throughout the sound, sound healing or sound bath meditation.

So that's a really, it's, it's a great integration because it allows the client or the community or whoever's engaging to ground themselves first, right? So the breathwork really helps them ground as we then start to incorporate, you know, energy work and energy healing through the sound and vibration and f.


Chris McDonald: thinking about sound healing, cuz that's not something I've really used with clients very much. So how do you start that? What would you recommend for people to start with the sound healing training

LeNaya Crawford: first? Yes, yes. I always say that. Cause you know what's funny about sound? You're interesting about sound healing.

It doesn't really require much quote unquote, Skill to play the bowls, right? Anyone can grab a sound bowl and hit it with their instruments, so anyone can do that. But it's really understanding the chakras and understanding the chakras in depth because with sound healing, essentially what we're doing is we're playing bowls that are connected to the chakras, and our chakras are energy centers, right?

And so when we're playing the bowls, we are finding balance and harmony in these shoppers. We're clearing out blockages in the cha. So it's really important to understand the power that lies within the chakras. Something that I love to teach is the psychology of the chakras, particularly for my therapist and mental health professionals, really understanding which diagnoses and what symptoms are aligned with each chakra and what it looks like for a client to be overactive in one chakra or maybe deficient in another shocker, and what it looks like for them to find balance and harmony.

So that's what it is. Sound healing is really about understanding in depth about the shopper

Chris McDonald: system. So this is definitely something that you need more learning, right? More training to really get started with.

LeNaya Crawford: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, I, I say step one is get a basic understanding of the shopper system, right?

Just a basic understanding, but knowing that when you're thinking about integrating it into the therapy room, or really facilitating healing circles or events that you take some time to. A little more in depth about the shocker system. It's very, very interesting.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen a lot of positive results with clients with using the sound healing and breath work?

LeNaya Crawford: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. So once you know the client feels safe and you've built that rapport, it definitely is a beneficial experience. I think that when you're introducing the practice of sound healing, it's important. I mean, even the practice of breath work, it's important to let your clients. What they might experience, right?

What might happen during the Sound bath. And so once you set that stage, it's, it's smooth sailing from there. But also, right, not everyone likes. Sound baths or not everyone likes, uh, long sound baths, right? So I think it's important to know that just because these are healing modalities, it doesn't mean that your particular client may resonate with it.

And so that's why I think it's really beneficial to have multiple different, you know, many different tools and many different modalities because. It's not a one size fits all kind of situation. Kind of wonder

Chris McDonald: to have an honest conversation to say, if this doesn't work for you, it's okay.

LeNaya Crawford: It's okay. Yes, absolutely.

Because I

Chris McDonald: wonder some clients, if they would be afraid to, to say, oh my God, I hated that .

LeNaya Crawford: Right, right. And that's, and that's like really setting the stage. Right. So when you talk about being trauma informed, I mean, you talk about being with people. But listen, you know, I talk to my clients like they're people say, listen girl, like if this doesn't work for you, just let me know.

I got something else in my toolbox. I know about you.

Chris McDonald: I got lots of people pleasers. . Yeah, .

LeNaya Crawford: But you know, you know, that's also part of the, the work, right? It's giving the client the autonomy. And the courage to say, listen, I really, if this doesn't resonate for you, let me know. And that also creates, you know, a healthy dynamic so that they have the courage in other situations to speak up and say, Hey, you know, I'm not really feeling that.


Chris McDonald: absolutely. Yeah. Cause I know you mentioned trauma informed, so let's, let's kind of go there. So how do you use both of those in a trauma

LeNaya Crawford: informed. Yeah. So you know, I'm a big believer that trauma informed care is essentially people informed, right? And so when we come from the perspective, , everyone that we encounter has had a different experience from us, right?

In that, you know, 70% of the people we encounter has experienced some sort of trauma. We understand that everything we do really should be coming from a trauma informed lens. And so I, I teach trauma informed, uh, facilitation in many different facets. And so the first thing that I would say is setting the environment.

You know, as therapists, they come into our, our offices either virtually or in person, and we wanna make sure that the space is trauma informed. We wanna make sure that they, they feel safe, right? So there's nothing triggering, nothing too out there. So that's number one. And then you also want to invite in autonomy.

These are, you know, we're gonna engage in a breathwork practice. We talked about this last session, but I want to remind you that at any point, if this feels uncom, , you can stop. If it feels like, uh, this is not really resonating, we can try something else. But a couple things that I also encourage folks to do is give choice.

So what kind of position does your client feel most comfortable in? You know, a lot of times they see any type of practitioner saying, you've gotta be in the seat of meditation, right? Sitting with your legs crossed, you have to have your eyes closed and you've gotta do this practice for 15. Who made up those rules, right?

Um, and so when you're trauma informed, you say, you know, choose a position that feels most comfortable for you. If it doesn't feel safe for you to close your eyes, maybe you keep a low gaze, maybe you keep them open. We're gonna start this practice. We're gonna, we're gonna start with a five minute, maybe like a, a two minute breath work practice today and see how that feels.

And then the next time we'll maybe do five minutes. So those are some ways that you can be trauma informed, always giving. Always putting the autonomy in the client's hands and just creating a space where it's like, We're gonna do this a little bit at a time, and if at any point it doesn't feel good, you can either drop the counts, you can open your eyes, you can change and move into a different position.

Ultimately, you have the power to do what feels good in your body.

Chris McDonald: So it's giving them the, the autonomy, I guess, to make choices for themselves and, and feeling

LeNaya Crawford: comfortable and Absolutely, but also giving suggestions, right? Because many clients will be like, well, I don't know what's comfortable for me.

Right? And so, okay, you can. May, you might find a comfortable seat. Maybe you lie down. Maybe as you lie down, you bring the souls of your feet together. So giving them different things because sometimes your clients don't know what feels good to them, right?

Chris McDonald: Practices. Yes. Do you also let them know that this is gonna last approximately 10

LeNaya Crawford: minutes or, yes, absolutely.

So letting them know where we're going. So when you're introducing the breathwork practice, mirroring it for them. This is what we're gonna do. This is what it will look like. This is what you might experience through this breathwork practice or through sound healing. And knowing that if you experience any of the things, so for instance, in sound healing, you might see color.

Right. You might notice involuntary bodily movement. So knowing that if any of these things happen, it's okay. And if none of these things happen, it's okay . Um, cause sometimes that's true. Right. Clients like, well, I didn't see the colors, or, you know, I didn't do that thing. It's like, it's okay. Your nervous system got what it needed.

Your body got what it needed, your spirit got what it needed and now we can process whatever it is that was coming up for

Chris McDonald: you. Yeah. It just reminds me that we got, we can't have that expectation and they can't either of what's gonna come up. And I think, and I always talk about was brain spotting too.

It's just allowing whatever wants to come up and be processed and, and that's okay. Yes. Cause Cause I think we get stuck. Outcome a lot. And clients do that too. .

LeNaya Crawford: Right? Very, very true. Right. And a big part of these practices is being here. A lot of the healing is being here. in this moment. That's hard. Woo.

Come on. That's hard. Easier said than done.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Especially with trauma, cuz I know often we're stuck in the past with trauma. Yes. And to be present can be really overwhelming for

LeNaya Crawford: a lot. Yes, absolutely. And, and that's why this work is important. And so it's teaching them little by little how to be safe with your body in this moment, creating and curating the safety for our clients so that they can experience the healing power of the present moment.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. That makes a difference. And I wonder cuz I learned trauma informed yoga, so for breath work and sound healing. Is it based on the way you say things, the language you use too? Yes,

LeNaya Crawford: absolutely. So again, giving a lot of choice, always. You know, tapping in or allowing the client to notice what feels good.

Right. Okay. Mm-hmm. like the curiosity to the body and what's happening in the moment. Absolutely. So very

Chris McDonald: similar. Very, very similar. Yeah. That's what I wondered, if that's similar to that. Yeah. Okay. I know a lot of listeners I hear from that they're very hesitant. When you and I talk about integrating a lot of these holistic modalities and there's a lot of fear-based conversations, I hear from listeners and emails Yeah.

And messages on Facebook, and I don't know, I'm afraid to get started. What about my licensure? You know, ethically, can I do this and are they gonna report me to the board? You know, those are the kind of things I hear. A lot . So I guess, can you talk to that and, and I know that you also talk about ethical and legal principles with this too.

With integrating these

LeNaya Crawford: and Absolutely. So in the Holistic Therapist Academy, that's, we have a whole uh, module dedicated to ethical integration, and I think it's important to understand that you have to be approaching this work within your scope of practice, and it's not within your scope of practice for you to integrate something that.

maybe you took a one day training on and you wanted, you know, implement it. Right now it's not within your scope of practice to, you know, watch a YouTube video, an Instagram, uh, uh, a video TikTok , right? Or watch a TikTok video and then try implement it, right? You'd be, I, I'm sure you've heard the stories, right?

Oh yeah. Um, so it's not within your scope of practice. And so I think that one of the ways that we can alleviate some of this fear is, one, making sure that we're taking training that is aligned with the work, and that comes from the perspective. Being a therapist and mental health professional because it's important.

I mean, we have licenses to uphold. We have boards that we answer to, and we also have other modalities that we've spent years and years and years practicing and, and, um, implementing. And so that's number one. And, you know, it goes back to the embodiment conversation that we were having earlier. I, I really believe that a lot of this year comes from not really finding the ground.

In your own body and in your own practice. You know, that's why in the academy and and many of the trainings that I do, embodiment is the first piece. I'm a big believer that you can't take your clients farther than you have gone. And so when you're consistent in your practice and you are. Implementing your breath work and you're doing your movement and you're doing your sound feeling, it invites in a confidence that I think that we forget, you know, many of past graduates say, you know, I started this program super scared.

I had tried it before and it didn't really work, but now that I'm grounded in my nervous system, but I know what it feels like for me, I'm, you know, better able to implement it with my client. So that's number. I dunno what number I'm on right now, but I think that's good. , whatever number. Right? So I think that's, that's also really, I just wanted to say preach.

Chris McDonald: Yes. . ,

LeNaya Crawford: yes. So that, so I think, I think that is one of the biggest takeaways. Like this is not, this work is not what we're typically used to taking, you know, a CCE event or a weekend training and be being able to implement what we. Right. This is embodiment. First, we have to be, we have to practice what we teach and, and that's why this work, I think, is so sacred and important, and also understanding that like implementing anything new can be scary.

And sometimes it's helpful to say, Hey, client, you know, I've been practicing and learning, you know, breath work and sound healing. I've took, you know, a three month or I took a long training on it and I've really been practicing and integrating. And I think it'd be really helpful for where you are in your journey.

Would you be interested in, in having us try being honest, having a lead of self disclosure? I think that when we humanize ourselves in the therapy room, I think that a lot of these fears that come up can be alleviated because we're saying, Hey, listen. I'm new to this work. I think it'll be really beneficial for you.

It's been beneficial for me. Let's try it. It might feel a little awkward at first as I get comfortable with it, but eventually we'll find our way. Eventually we'll find our

Chris McDonald: way. Yes, very encouraging words.

LeNaya Crawford: is helpful too, right? Like you've taken them client that you, you just met. You've built some rapport with them. You know what I'm saying? And I think. You know, especially when I was on the beginning journey of integrating this work years and years ago, clients appreciated that. Yes. And I hear it now with my graduates.

They appreciate knowing that, oh my gosh, my therapist is in this training, learning how to do these things. Um, and, you know, they're, they're practicing and it's, it's a little exciting for the clients. And it's also like the clients can give you feedback and the feedback that they give you is, is really gonna help you become a better facilit.

Chris McDonald: it's, yes, I think so too. Yeah. And, and I think that vulnerability piece, I've, and, and I think it's scary for a lot of therapists, cuz a lot of people, especially if your training is, oh, we don't share hardly anything. Right. And, you know, to go against that can be tough. But I've found when I have that, you know, I just, the rapport just increases tremendously.

Mm. That and that authenticity. Cuz once I can just be like cursing with their, with clients and that's who I'm, and I curse. Yes. And they're just like, whoa. Okay. , I feel

LeNaya Crawford: better. . Exactly. And it's like when we show up as our full selves and that they, we give our clients the courage to show up in the world.

Is there full and authentic selves? And how healing is that? I mean that is, it is healing relationships and examples that we can set. So

Chris McDonald: I'm right. Yeah, cuz I mean, even is, I forgot where I heard this too, but even just saying, you know what, I'm having a bad day today too, . And I just wanna be honest with you that I may not be my full self that I am, but you know, I appreciate, you know, this time for you and I'm gonna be here for you, but I just wanna let you know so they can be like, oh, , so you are a human.

Right, right.

LeNaya Crawford: That part, like we're, we're humans, right? Yeah. And like. It gives them, it shows them an example of when they're feeling tired, how they can then communicate that with their spouse, their family, their boss, their community. Right. And so I, I love that vulnerability is, is so healing, especially from a

Chris McDonald: therapist too.

Yeah. No, I, I appreciate this whole conversation too. I think there's so many, there is so many pieces, isn't there with. Integrating it isn't just one piece. And I think that it's multi-layered and there's so many parts to it.

LeNaya Crawford: Exactly, and that is the holistic work, right? Yes. It's like implementing all areas of ourselves and understanding that we are multi-dimensional, multifaceted.

Multi-passionate, all the things, so, absolutely.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And that scope of confidence too. And I, I talk about this in my training too. I have a short training on that, but is really making sure that you do get supervision, that you do have, uh, mentors, that you talk to other people in the field. It's really learning from other people too.

And, and for them to be able to, you know, that you can check on them, be like, Hey, I'm having trouble with, with implementing this. Can you

LeNaya Crawford: help? Absolutely. And you. As we were talking before we started recording, like really cultivating a community Yes. Of therapists. Mm-hmm. to, to this work. Right. And really, you know, being there for one another because not, there's not a whole lot of us, we're definitely in the minority in this field, and so the goal is definitely to, to share the goodness and the benefits of coming from a holistic perspective.

And something I wanna add about training, because I see this often, I think it's really, really, Important for therapists and mental health professionals who are interested in this work to also seek out a therapist who have done this work and have integrated it. Because when you go to just a typical body-based program or yoga teacher training, they're only seeing it from the the body-based lens and maybe the spirit based lens.

But we spent so many years. I don't wanna use the word perfecting, but we've really leaned into the mental and emotional body that it, we ha we see things from a unique lens and so it's really important for us to seek out training from folks who can come from that lens as well. Agreed. Understand about the integration piece, so,

Chris McDonald: Now I felt that before I did my training, which incorporates that as well.

Cuz I, I was looking at all these yoga trainings. I was like, I don't know, not there's anything wrong with it, , but Right. 200 hours for some of these that it is just yoga. I'm like, I, I just didn't feel right. I don't know. I felt really uncomfortable with that. So I think just really looking at what is geared towards you as therapist and Exactly.

In court. Cause it, it is so,

LeNaya Crawford: Yes it is. Right? And so, you know, having someone who understands that lens and perspective might be invaluable for your education and for your training.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Cuz I, I and how to integrate, because I think some people I've talked to have on yoga certification, but it's not geared towards therapists.

So then they're like, how do I do no ?

LeNaya Crawford: Yes, I, I hear that all the time. They're like, yeah, I have my 200 hour, I'm, I know how to do this. You know, I know how to do this. Then they get in the room with a client and they don't know how you integrate it. Ah, a 200 doesn't teach you that. You know, I'm someone who leads 200 hours and I tell you, tell them like, this is not, I'm not teaching you how to integrate this in the therapy room.

That's a whole different, uh, situation. That's a whole different lens. And so while having that 200 hour, I think is really helpful, it doesn't really show you how to integrate it into your work as a therapist and mental health professional.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and, and I had a thought too, just thinking about all the certifications out there in training.

So even if you get certified in something, it doesn't mean that you're good . It means that you still need to seek out other people for consultation, because I got certified and raised mind. But let me tell you, I had somebody today, I'm like, Hmm, , I'm not sure what to do with. Because even that's the same with other holistic modalities.

You're gonna come across clients like, I've tried all these holistic, I don't know what to do. So we need that and it, and to, you have to open up your community and that, and it is a vulnerable place, right? To be like, I don't know what to do, but, but that's what makes us better. Holistic therapist.

LeNaya Crawford: Exactly right.

That vulnerability, like you said again. Right. And that's how we invite in more community. I don't know how to do this. Helping. We keep going back to the , right. You, it's so, it's so,

Chris McDonald: it's so powerful. It's, it's so integrated. So what's a takeaway you could share today that that might be for a therapist Just starting their holistic journey.


LeNaya Crawford: I think the biggest takeaway is making sure the journey starts with. I think that's, that's really the biggest piece, making sure the journey starts with you and that you are doing these practices for yourself and that you are pouring into you before you then try to implement and pour into your clients.

Chris McDonald: What's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you?

LeNaya Crawford: Yeah, so, uh, you can visit my website, lin smith crawford.com. You can also follow me on all social media channels at Lin s Crawford. Then yeah, that's how you can, uh, stay in touch

Chris McDonald: and we'll have all that in the show notes too, listeners.

So, yes, you don't have to write it down right now, .

LeNaya Crawford: It's okay. Absolutely, yes, yes. I'll also share a link to the Holistic Therapist Academy as well, if your listeners are interested.

Chris McDonald: Okay. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast

LeNaya Crawford: today. Thank you for having me. It was so much fun.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, a great conversation.

Listeners. Are you frustrated with generic intake forms that don't reflect who you are as a holistic counselor? Having great intake forms are an essential part of building a relationship with your clients. I created my holistic intake forms for therapists just like you. And this form includes comprehensive intake questions, unique to holistic counseling, including questions about physical issues, mental concerns.

And spiritual questions. So go to my website, holistic counseling podcast.com/resources to find it and you'll get all the information you need. This is Chris McDonald's, sending each one of you much late in love. Till next time, take care. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast.

Check out my resource page, which has amazing holistic resources and discount codes for products that I have personally vetted. Head on over to www dot holistic counsel. cast.com/resources. Your support is appreciated.

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