Episode 92 The 5-Step Profitable Podcast Guesting Process: Interview with Di-Di Hoffman

Chris McDonald: Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, where you discover diverse wellness modalities, advice on growing your integrative practice and grow confidence in being your unique self. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I'm so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I wanted to give a shout-out to any new listeners. Welcome. As a listener, you have access to my free nine-part email course, becoming a Holistic Counselor. In this course, you'll explore different holistic strategies, how to develop your skills as a holistic counselor, and how to manifest your holistic practice through journaling.

Go to www.holisticcounselingpodcast.com. Scroll down, enter your name and email address. Have you wanted to be a podcast guest, but were unsure how to do this. I was fortunate to connect with today's guest, DEI Hoffman. I was honored to be a guest on his show. He's coming to you today all the way from South Africa.

Dei works with subject matter experts who are tired of being the best kept secret in their field and are ready to step into the limelight where prospects can't help but notice them. He is the creator of the Perpetual Rainmaking system for Go-to Experts. And host of the Badass Wellness Coach show. A fun fact about him is he loves telling dad jokes and drawing stick figures.

Welcome to the podcast D

Did-Di Hoffman: uh, thank you for having me, Chris. It's such an honor being here and you, I do both of those and everybody tells me I'm terrible.

Chris McDonald: You're terrible at both. That's funny. Stick figures aren't too hard though, are they? Uh,

Did-Di Hoffman: you must

Chris McDonald: seen mine. You haven't seen your, I know you'll have to show me, but I did.

I know. We, this is our take too. We've had some technical issues, so I'm glad this is working out better here on Zoom. Uh, but as we talked about before, I love the name of your show, the Badass. I just wanna say that Badass Wellness Coach Show. How did you come up

Did-Di Hoffman: with. Uh, thank you for asking. Yeah. I was helping a student and I really went out of my way to help her and then afterwards she just sent me a text message saying that Diddy, you badass

And I was

I was really taken aback by that, so before I answered her, because I was angry, you know, it was an insult. Yeah. , before I answered, I thought, let me ask my. My son is a millennial and his fiance, and I said, you know, if somebody tells you're a badass, it's an insult or a compliment. They just, you are sure

Yeah. I wasn't, they just laugh and said, dad, that's a big compliment. And yeah, that's where the, where the badass wellness coach was

Chris McDonald: born. Nice. So can you tell my listeners a little more about yourself and your work?

Did-Di Hoffman: Oh, thank you. Uh, Chris. I'm an ex commercial product grower and herbalist from Sunny South Africa.

Uh, we are the northern side of part of the country, so that's the Savannah side, sort of the big five country side. Beautiful. As part of South Africa, warm, sunny, um, and I slowly, I slowly but surely transmuted to the online rain making note, um, when, yeah, I have two patients. One is helping our indigenous traditional illness to incorporate modern medic medical aism into their treatment protocols.

Um, and it's all done online and I've been doing that for nearly two decades now, uh, which resulted in it being very much. If I may use the word because it's not really true, but it's, it's a lot of, it's automated and a lot of it's a systems and processes and I've got people helping me. So it's become really a, a lot of a hands off thing.

And that led to me, you know, having too much time on my hand, planted the whole. Property, open a food board and you are needed to do some, started doing something else. And that's where my other passion came in. And that's, as you've already said, you know, working with wellness professionals who off head up, you know, with being a needle and a giant online, a yes.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And that's there, that's basically what I'm up to.

Chris McDonald: And I really appreciate you and how you really are supportive and, and I already felt the support from you, even though we're a world away, , you've reached out and really offered other guests and, and you know, putting me in your newsletter. And I think that having that community right as podcasters is so helpful.

Did-Di Hoffman: I totally agree. I think that's what it's all about. And that's one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about podcasting because it actually gives us a vehicle to start building business friendships and, uh, very want to highlight the, the semantics there. It's not a business relationship, it's a business.

Yeah.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Mm-hmm. . I agree. And that's why I always talk about networking as making friends and not just a business .

Did-Di Hoffman: Absolutely.

Chris McDonald: Absolutely. That's right. So, and, uh, the, a lot of the listeners are therapists here. And some of them have businesses themselves, but I know a lot are hesitant about going on podcasts.

So why do you think that therapists should consider podcast guesting? Why would that be helpful for their business?

Did-Di Hoffman: Uh, I love that question. The goal, Chris, of any business is simple. Basically what we need to do is we take total strangers and then we convert them into happy clients. All of us know that those strangers do not simply fall from

You know, they had simply come knocking on our doors. We have to somehow make them aware that we exist. Um, my friend Michael Port says, it's not who you know. It's not what you know, it's who knows what you know. Now, when we start our practices, our coaching practices, getting those first lines is very easy.

We simply tap into our personal networks. But sooner or later, we exhaust those personal networks and then our challenge starts. You know, how do we keep on finding new changes, right? Mm-hmm. to turn into Epic clients. And as we all know, in the online world, there are many, many ways and way too many shiny things that you can try.

But there are two that stand ahead and show this above the race. The first one, and we've just mentioned, That's building that business, friendships, expanding your network. And the other one is harnessing the power of good old fashioned word of mouth. And port course Gaying does both of those on steroids.

Chris McDonald: And I love that cuz it's, it's just so much more effective than just waiting for word of mouth to happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. And what I noticed too is with my podcast, that it does open up even other opportunities for you. You know, I've, I've reached other people that have asked me for speaking engagements or just more networking opportunities.

The, the reach is very surprising to me cuz I've never went into this, like to try to get therapy clients for my other business. But that's happened too. So you just never know who's gonna be listening. No.

Did-Di Hoffman: And it's funny, if you look at, at the whole podcast guesting scene with a little bit more of a left brain, you know, sort of what's the return on investment going to be?

Yeah. The, the average downloads per episode, Is in the region of 200 downloads per episode, and that's for active podcasts. If you take all the podcasts out there, it's more in a region of just 50 downloads per episode. Yeah. Um, and, and that doesn't sound like a lot, Chris, but just imagine speaking on a stage to 50 people.

Yeah. Suddenly that becomes a lot of people. That's one of the powerful things of podcasting is that we are literally in the heads. Um, they, you know, we, we, people listening to this now, most of us listen with headphones. You know, I like listening to podcasts when I'm multitasking, you know, working in a food garden.

So yo and I intensely listen to whatever podcast I'm tuned into. So it's just a powerful medium. And as you said, all these other things that come along, you know it, it happens so often that you're a guest on a podcast and at the end of the show, the host will say, yeah, I see Chris. I just loved having you in the show.

You know, I'm hosting a virtual summit in two or three months. Yeah, that happened

Chris McDonald: too. . Yeah, we'd love

Did-Di Hoffman: to, we'd love to have you as a guest. So, yeah, it's just powerful.

Chris McDonald: It is just so powerful. Yeah. And it is putting yourself out there more than just like, oh, I'm going to a local networking event. Cause that's limited.

Yeah.

Did-Di Hoffman: I don't wanna bash the local network, which Great. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think they're still important and I, I think we, we should still do them, but podcast guesting, just put all of that. Total different level. Uh, in terms of reach, I mean, I'm from South Africa. You're from the states. I mean, it's two worlds apart.

Yes. Um, you can't do that in any other medium.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And what would you say, cuz I hear this a lot from therapists that I asked to be guests, that if they've never done an interview before, they're very nervous, they're not sure of themselves. And what would you say to someone who might be really apprehensive about starting.

Did-Di Hoffman: Yeah, it's, uh, just do it. Um, just, just start doing it. And, and I know especially for us in the healing arts, we, we don't like the limelight. We don't want to get out there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but, but it's, so, you know, the two of us are sitting here. It's just the one on one conversation. It's just the two of us.

Uh, with the added advantage, there's a huge reach afterwards and, and, and it gives both of us opportunity because you're going to promote this episode. Tribe, but I'm also going to promote this episode when, when it leases to my tribe. The nice thing about that is it keeps on just expanding your reach and it just keeps on expanding your visibility.

And another advantage of foot cos guessing that a lot of us don't realize is that each and every time that you go onto a podcast as an expert guest, like I'm on yours today, and like you've been on mine. Um, Each of those gives us an opportunity to reiterate and to again, clarify our message and, and, and our impact on, on, on, on our tribe.

So it's just powerful in, in all the ways that you can think of. So yo, even if you don't like the limelight, just do it. Just do it. Just get out there, get yourself featured on one podcast and take it from there, and you will see it becomes a snowball effect once you start doing it. You

Chris McDonald: can. Yes. And what I, I'll tell you my story.

So I had gone on my first podcast, uh, I think it was two and a half years ago on Therapy Tap. I was a wreck. I was so , so nervous. I never done this before. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. But I think, you know, when I, when it was released, I was like, oh God, I must sound stupid. That's, I think that's a big figure.

I'm gonna sound stupid, but I listened back. I. Oh, I sound pretty good. . Yeah, it, it came together and it made sense cuz there was a couple questions. I wasn't sure to an how to answer, but I answered 'em perfectly fine. I think just building that confidence right, once you get through the first time and, and like you said, just.

This is a conversation. This is not a serious, you know, straight laced interview that you have to be like, I am two professionals talking. Right. We can relax, we can laugh and just, just try to go into it the way, it's the framework. Wait, the way you look at this, but know that you know a lot of things as a therapist, you have these skills already.

You talk with clients every day, it's just using them in a different way too, and sharing that knowledge I think is so important.

Did-Di Hoffman: Oh, it's important. And, and you saying that you were nervous. Oh my God, Chris, that's just music to my Yes. Yeah, because that, that just shows that you care about the audience and you care about our, and that to me is one of the most important things about podcast guesting because.

When I'm a guest, it's not about me. It's first and foremost about you. That's you're my host. And that's just good manners. Yeah. Um, you know, being, being a good guest, uh, but also thinking about the audience, thinking about your listeners. And again, in our profession as heals, we excel at that. We are so good at that because that's what we do every day.

Yes. And it's just taking what you do every day and just going onto a podcast. And have a conversation with th and I

Chris McDonald: know you have a five step profitable podcast guesting process. Can you share a little bit about that so people can understand what, what's involved with that? Yeah,

Did-Di Hoffman: there's a lot of nuts and bolts, uh, that you have to.

Figure out if you really want to do it as a professional guest and, and you really want to leverage the impact that you can get from each and every appearance. And it's, and really it's, it's quite simple in the end. It's not, it's not rocket science. And the first thing that we start with is just old story, having a plan.

So you need to, you need to decide what you want to accomplish. It's the why. It's the, the, the. Basic, basic things of anything that we do in business. So just starting with that, that why, and then we need to develop two basic systems. The first one is what we call the Rain making System. And the rain making system is just basic, a booking system that's.

To get yourself booked onto Port God shows and that Chris is the bulk of your work to, to get yourself booked. Uh, and then you have another system. And that system is what I call the Rain making Harvesting System, and that's just leveraging each and every one of our episodes that you appear on. Now with the booking system, the first thing that we need to do is which podcast do we want to appear?

Um, and that's the hard part. . That's the hard part. .

Chris McDonald: I've struggled with that.

Did-Di Hoffman: Yeah, it's, it's, it's hard. Uh, what I teach my students is we, we start with what we call a port ghost guesting positioning statement. And it's basically just a little statement that you write for yourself that says, I want to be a guest on podcasts that talk about, and then you insert your topic there, talk to the audience.

You start with the audience. About the topic. So it's just basically saying, I want to appear on podcast that speak to X about Y. And once you have that, it provides a filter that you can use to, to get through all the podcasts. And they're all guesstimate of. Between 500,000 and 800,000 active podcast costs out there.

And obviously you can't reach all of those , so nobody has that time. Nobody has that time. And then with that podcasting state positioning statement, we start filtering and we, I have. A few criteria. The first, what we call the three qualifying criteria. Uh, and the first one of those is just simple. Make sure that the port course is still active.

Uh, there are a lot that's true. They don't pot fight. You know, they start and, and not just those that go on Port Force. A lot of podcasts these days are just a season, you know, it's, it's eight or 10 or 12 episodes and that's all it is. So make sure that it's still active. The next thing I need to make sure is that they accept guests.

There are a lot of podcasts that don't accept guests, so don't pitch somebody that got a solo episode, or it's two hosts talking the whole time. And the third and the. Important one is you need to make sure that you resonate with what's happening on the podcast, and that's actually quite easy because you can just read the description of the podcast and if you can tick those three boxes from there.

What we, we have some, what we call the the filtering. Criteria and that sort of criteria that allows us to, to rank the podcast. Uh, and then again, it's basic things that we look at is just go to the podcast and actually listen to it and make a hundred percent sure that you'll resonate with what's happening on that podcast.

For instance, and it's a simple example. If you don't like swearing, don't go onto the podcast where those swears are podcasts like that. So make sure that you resonate with that. Then the next thing that we look at that that can help us filter them down is just go and visit the website and see if there's actually a website behind this podcast, because a lot of podcasts are early out that on.

The podcasting platform. There's no website, right? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And there's, there's lots of those. So make sure there's a website because you want to build credibility for yourself. So just go and visit that website and then when you're on the website, don't look if there's a freebie, uh, because if there's a freebie, it means that they are building a email list.

Uh, and Chris, the two of us both. Our email lists are a lot bigger than our podcast listenership, so it's important. If there's a email list and a freebie, it means that that post will actually promote the podcast to their listeners, and that means that you will get additional exposure. And if you can tick all those boxes, it just makes the filtering system a lot, lot easier.

And this is something that you can. Once you've developed it for yourself, those checklist criteria you can actually give to a VA or you can give to your assistant to do that basic research for you before you start pitching. Um, and that's the next step in that whole booking system is now you need to start pitching these, these podcasts.

I always tell my students it's not a numbers game, but the numbers are important. It's very important that because there's so much time involved in doing that initial research, that once you actually start sending out those emails that you are a hundred percent sure that you actually want to be a guest on that podcast.

Otherwise, there's no ways going. Use going through the cell process and then when it comes to the pitching and you seeing these pitches, uh, I seen them with my podcast, people sending you a template that pitched. I hate those. And I think you hate them as well. Yes. It's just, it's actually an insult getting those pitches because shows that when you get those speeches that the person pitching, you actually just want to use your platform that you've built and worked very hard.

They just want to use it for their own game. We also teach our students to write a basic template for their pitches. It just saves a lot of time, but it's a template that for each and every host that we pitch, we will actually go. And sort of rewrite the paragraphs. Um, and we always thought with making sure that our topic relates to what the host covers on the podcast.

Uh, and you've had those pitches as well. Chris, I'm sure that people pitching you with a subject that's totally,

Chris McDonald: oh, yeah. I was like, I don't understand how this fits in . Right.

Did-Di Hoffman: That's the first thing. Make sure that it's a hundred percent sure and then you'll pitch as to show how you are going to provide value to the listeners.

Um, if you can't do that, don't pitch that show, pitch another show, because that's very important. Uh, when we as hosts, Read those pictures. The first thing I I do is I'm there to curate guests and good content for my audience. So if you can't show me how you are going to provide that value to my audience, I'm not interested in reading.

Um, so if you can do that, give them a topic and being just say, three or four talking points. So that the host can form a quick picture in their minds of what this interview is going to be like. And you actually do that in four or five paragraph. It's a pitch email that's 250 to 300 words. It takes a minute for those to read it, and a host can quickly make up their mind.

It's a yes or it's a no, or it's a yes. Order to no order to maybe don. There's a lot of pictures on the internet when you start Googling. There are three, four pages long and that just goes on and on about you. Don't do that. Start with a simple email that's focused on the host and the listeners, and you will be amazed at how many yeses you get once you start following up, because that's the third step in that whole process.

You have to follow up. The hosts are busy. I get emails pitching me to be a guest on my show and I read them and I say, yes, this, this guest are, yeah, it sounds good, but I'm busy. I have other things to do, so I forget, right? Mm-hmm. , so, so you have to follow up and about 75% of your yes answers final yeses is actually going to come from your follow up.

And as you can already secrets, that's quite an evolved process. It is. But if you, yeah, but if you, if you really want to start building those friendships, uh, and start getting yourself out there, you have to do it in a structured, very systematic way because that's the only way you can improve this whole pitching process, you know, this whole booking system.

And it's a, it's a system. Uh, once you've got that set up as I've already. You can actually hand it off to a VA or to a to your assistant. Apart from writing that final email, um, there's two things that I. Say you have to do as a guest, you have to do yourself. You have to go and listen to that podcast and, and not just one episode.

Listen to two or three episodes, and then the next thing that you need to do is you have to actually finally send off that email yourself. Your, your assistant can prepare it for you. So you can, you can do it, but you as the guest, you are responsible for starting that business, friendship and for laying the foundation, not somebody.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, exactly. And, and I'm glad you shared all that. That's really detailed and I think helpful for somebody getting started. Cause I made some of those mistakes of . I sent a pitch to someone, they're like, I haven't done that podcast in a year. I was like, oh my God, Or you know, we don't do that. We don't talk about, we talk more about business strategies, not about like, cuz I'm more clinical, you know, my podcast, no, we don't do that.

I was like, oh, oops. . . Okay. So yeah, don't waste your time and their. So make sure that you're appropriate for them and, and like, like you said, we, I get like pitches every day, so just know that I'm not gonna read. You said three or four pages. I would just like not read that . No, I like how you said just a few paragraphs is helpful.

Summarize, right. No,

Did-Di Hoffman: you, what you want with that first email is just to. And you can actually say it at the end, are you interested or not? Um, that's all you. You just want to pick the host interest and then you can take it from there. So yeah, don't make it a long process. Keep it short and simple for the host.

Uh, make it as easy on that host. Don't tell a host that, you know, yes, my media page. Go and download this. Go and read list. Listen to this episode. Don't do that. I don't have time for that. If you've. Pitch me in in three or four or five short paragraphs, less than 300 words. Just forget it.

Chris McDonald: Exactly. Yeah. So true.

And I like some people that have said, oh, I like this episode with this guest and. You know, I, I think I can also add to the conversation. Something of that effect really just kind of catches my interest, that shows me that they've listened to my podcast and they're not just pitching to use my platform, like you mentioned, for their own promotion.

Did-Di Hoffman: Again, that's such good advice, Chris, if, if you really want to, to, you know, own your system and build a a first world class professional booking system, what we actually do is we go and listen to an episode, you know, just run. Podcast episodes and find one that really interests you, something that you think you can apply in your own business, and then go and listen to that podcast, that episode, and actually take the action or takeaway from it and go and apply it in your own business.

Or go and apply it in your own life or whatever the the topic is, and then see how it works for you. And. When you pitch, actually tell those, Chris, I've listened to your episode with Didi. I took that away from that episode. I actually went and applied it into my own business, and yes, the result I got, you know, either it bumped or it didn't, you know, or it was brilliant and again, You as a host, if you get an episode or a pitch that actually tells you what your listener or your proposed guest has got from that episode.

I mean that immediately to me is a yes. 99% of the cases.

Chris McDonald: No, totally agree. And I know you have a, what's called a podcast pitching sprint. Can you share what that

Did-Di Hoffman: is? No. The podcast pitching print is basically what we've talked about today, uh, but in, in a little bit more detail. Uh, and it's a, it's a seven, seven day, uh, sprint that we do just to get you set up with your whole podcast booking system.

So basically take you day by day in, in short time chunks. Through the whole system, doing your planning, writing your pitches, doing the research, uh, building what we call the hot list that we are going to pitch. Uh, sharing the tools that you have to, to do, put it all together and then just getting those pitches out.

Um, because you've, you've done it yourself the first time you have to. Press sent on that pitch. Email is scary. Yes. , were you procrastinate? Yeah, you do, you do. Put this in draft. I'll do it tomorrow. The whole idea of the seven day pitching sprint is that it's, it's time based. It's a project, uh, and we set a goal at the start that during, or by the end of the seven days, you, you decide yourself you're going to send out five pictures or you're going to send out 10 pictures or whatever you have time for, and we just get it done.

Uh, and it's just amazing. Everybody that goes through that actually sends out their pictures. We also show you from starters to actually tap into your own network again, uh, and see if you can't get a referral or introduction somewhere along the line for somebody to, to. Pitch a podcast host, and most people these days have actually go and sit and think, well see that, oh, I know this one that can send me, you know, that host so you can make the connection.

And we start pitching those. So it's again, working our own personal network. And then most of our students end up, we work on a ratio. If you're starting out and you're a newbie that you, for every five pitches that you. You are going to get at least one, but mostly two yeses. Uh, and yeah, if you've got those first two or three podcast episodes under the belt, from there on, it just become a lot.

Yeah,

Chris McDonald: cuz then you can also share, I've also been on this, this podcast or that podcast and, and I think that's helpful if, if they can listen to you from another podcast, be like, oh, cause I know, I love that too, if I can hear that. Oh, okay. So they can yeah. Handle this. Okay. And they sound great. Makes a lot of sense.

So, so is there anything else that you wanted to share about the podcast guesting process?

Did-Di Hoffman: No, I just think we, we've basically just covered two steps now. The, the, the lost steps and that's the, what we call the rain making harvest clean system. And that's just leverages and I'm just going to mention it quickly cause there's just three important steps again there.

And the first one is that you have to treat this like you would a professional speaking system. So, uh, you have to be very professional about each and every appearance. And that means preparing. You actually need to go and prepare. Um, that's one part. The next step is that you actually need to promote your own episodes.

Don't just wait for your host. To promote, you actually need to leverage that. And we do that in various ways. We actually take that content that we've produced and we repurpose it in various ways. And there are, and if you do that, Chris, you can actually, from one guest appearance, you can create a week's worth of, of social media.

Post, uh, you can create block posts. You can just, you know, the sky's the limit. And then the last one is just what we call a podcast funnel. And that means that you actually need to have your own lead magnet and you have to have your own call to action that you can get the end of the show of each guest appearance so that you can start building your own email.

And job. That's basically the whole five step system is, is if you do all of those can promise you that. You would just be amazed at the results you'll get from being against on

Chris McDonald: podcasts. So was a takeaway you could share today to help listeners that wanna go onto a podcast but are unsure. Again,

Did-Di Hoffman: Chris, I will just say take the plunge.

Take the pl, yeah. Yeah. Take the plunge. Just do it. Just send out a few pictures. Reach out to a few podcasts. That is preferably, uh, an another tip. If you're listening to this show and you are a guest that will fit onto this show. Reach out to Chris and say, say to Chris, Chris, I'm a listener to your show.

I've listened to this episode. This is what I got from it. And I can promise you if you do that, Chris will definitely, I won't say, will say yes, but, but definitely that pitch will always be behind my list because I'm there for my tribe. Absolutely. So if, if one of my. Pitches me to be on my show. To me, it's, that's what I'm there for.

So I'll do anything on my power to have you on that show. So again, just go out there and start

Chris McDonald: pitching. Yeah. And feel free to email me at chris holistic counseling podcast.com. And I'd be glad to offer you tips too. If you don't wanna go on my podcast. That's fine. If you, there's another one then. This is, this is something you have to learn, right?

It's a learning process. It's not something you jump in and know all the answers to, which is okay. So what's the best way for listeners to find you, learn more about you? I

Did-Di Hoffman: think the best way is just to go to, to my website, it's badass.com. Um, and just have a look at all the resources there. And then if you're really interested to podcast casting, I've got a professional podcast guessing toolkit that you can download for free.

And that's also a bad entrepreneurs.com. Chris, your hosts and hosts name, uh, and just click on that and download the podcast guesting to get and just get yourself started. And that'll

Chris McDonald: also be in the show notes on the website. But I wanna thank you so much Dei, for coming on the podcast today.

Did-Di Hoffman: Uh, I wanna thank you, Chris, for opportunity and I also want to thank you for the wonderful work you're doing.

Uh, yours is one of my. Our favorite podcast because you have all these holistic alternative therapies and stuff. You know, for me, being a, being a herbalist, I just love listening to those. So yeah, it's one of my favorite podcasts. Thank you for your work.

Chris McDonald: Wonderful. And don't forget to join us for another episode next Wednesday.

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