An in depth discussion of using energy techniques in therapy with Stacey Shapiro

Dec 1, 2021

Have you heard of comprehensive energy psychology? How can energy work combine with psychotherapy? How can therapists use these techniques to maintain their energy in session?

MEET STACEY SHAPIRO

Stacey Shapiro has been on a mission to assist families and therapists in finding peace. She has spent the last 20 years developing an intuitive and integrative approach to her work as a Clinical Social Worker, Play Therapist, and Master Life Coach. She specializes in anxiety and trauma amongst children, teens, and adults. Stacey’s down-to-earth style, collaborative and intuitive nature make it easy for her clients to find success. Currently, she is in private practice through tele-mental health.

Her extensive work history includes teaching classes on Play Therapy and Human Development and Family Studies. Currently, she is running a coaching program for self-care and awakening for mental health therapists. She is also developing a parent coaching program, called the P.E.A.C.E. program.

Visit Stacey Shapiro’s practice website and the Awareness Coaching website. Connect with Stacey on LinkedIn and check out her profile on Psychology Today.

Resources for mental health therapists:

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IN THIS PODCAST:

  • Comprehensive energy psychology
  • Using EFT in therapy
  • Biofield
  • Stacey’s advice to new holistic counselors

*Disclaimer: wash hands prior to doing and energy work and run it by your doctor.

Comprehensive energy psychology

Comprehensive energy psychology works on three energy systems:

1 – Meridians

2 – Chakras

3 – Biofields

They are using muscle testing to ask the body where there might be stuck energy and the belief is that all negative emotions are just stuck energy and if we can move the energy, which comes first, then we can move the memories and the sensations people are feeling in their body which helps them bring in the cognitive peace. (Stacey Shapiro)

Using this combined approach of energy work and bodily sensations to move through stagnant emotions can enable the psychotherapeutic process to go more smoothly.

Using EFT in therapy

Certified therapists can use EFT tapping and conscious word pairings in therapy if their client is open to it. A combination of tapping and word pairing is most effective in regulating an anxious person.

Tapping is a way to regulate energy flow throughout the body and conscious word pairings help to calm someone down by expressing how they feel. For example:

“I am anxious about this event however I know I will be safe on the other side”.

Conscious word pairings help a client to validate their current feeling while placing their future in a comfortable setting, in a place where the current anxiety has ended, and they feel calm.

Biofield

Your biofield, also known as the aura, is your circle of energy.

You can consciously expand it or bring it closer to you when you feel like you are being impacted by the negative energies of other people around you.

Some quick tips on cleansing your aura:

– Using sound

– Using your hands, place them in front of you and imagine your aura stops where your hands reach

– Use visualization and your imagination to think of waterfalls to clear the biofield and close it so that other people’s energies cannot come in and drain yours.

Grounding and taking energy in from the earth or going up into the ethers and bringing the energy down so that [your biofield] is filled in. (Stacey Shapiro)

Therapists can use these techniques to keep themselves “safe” from their client’s negative energies during counseling sessions.

It is also important for empaths to make use of these techniques to keep themselves grounded.

Stacey’s advice to new holistic counselors

If you want to release energy quickly, take deep breaths in and out. When you breathe in, say the word “relax”, and when you breathe out, say the word “release”. Go into any part of your body that feels tense and practice this breathing technique to soothe this tension.

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Resources Mentioned And Useful Links:

Visit Stacey Shaprios’s practice website and the Awareness Coaching website.

Connect with Stacey on LinkedIn and check out her profile on Psychology Today.

Freebie: Receive the Advance Therapist Self-Care Workbook

Don’t Hate Your Guts! Holistic Treatment for Disorders of the Gut/Brain Interaction with Dr. Jennifer Franklin

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Holistic Counselor

Practice of the Practice Podcast Network

Transcript

[CHRIS McDONALD]

The Holistic Counseling Podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Behind the Bite, Full of Shift and Impact Driven Leader, go to www.practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, where you discover diverse wellness modalities, advice on growing your integrative practice, and grow confidence in being your unique self. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. I'm so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome to today's episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. This is Chris McDonald. I'm your host and expert in all things related to holistic counseling. If you're a new listener to the podcast, I want to say welcome. As a listener, you have access to my free nine-part email course Becoming A Holistic Counselor. In this course, you'll explore different holistic strategies, how to develop your skills as a holistic counselor, and how to attract your ideal holistic clients. Go to www.holisticcounselingpodcast.com, scroll down, enter your name and email address today.

Back to today's episode. Have you ever wondered about energy techniques and how they might help you and your clients? Today's guest will give you an in-depth discussion of about this and you learn strategies to release stuck energy. Stacey Shapiro has been on a mission to assist families in finding peace. She has spent the last 20 years developing an intuitive and integrative approach to her work as a clinical social worker, play therapist and master life coach. She specializes in anxiety and trauma among children, teen and adults.

Stacey's down to earth style, collaborative and intuitive nature make it easy for her clients to find success. Currently she's in private practice through telemental health. She comes to you with a wealth of information regarding counseling parents and their children during life changing and stressful events, which there have been so many of those in the past year and a half. She provides online or phone counseling and coaching services. Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, Stacey.

[STACEY SHAPIRO]

Thank you, Chris. I'm excited to be here.

[CHRIS]2

Can you share a little bit more about yourself and your work, where you're from?

[STACEY]

I'm from Pennsylvania and I see people virtually in counseling and coaching. Counseling people need to be in Pennsylvania, because that's where my license is and coaching can be across state lines or the world.

[CHRIS]

Excellent. What brought you to be a more holistic provider?

[STACEY]

So honestly it was my own personal journey. I started going for mess massages regularly as part of my selfcare as a counselor and the person that I was seeing, she was using a lot of Reiki and energy medicine techniques and that [crosstalk]

[CHRIS]

Sorry to interrupt, but yes, that's awesome.

[STACEY]

Exactly. She was also, I believe a shaman because she was doing all kinds of things with the spirit worlds. I was very curious about all of this change that was happening in me and transformations and awakening. So I wanted to learn more about it and how I could bring it into my counseling programs and counseling sessions. So I actually, in one of her meditation groups, it was a woman's circle, it came to me to Google psychotherapy and energy what came up was the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology, which I had no idea existed.

[CHRIS]

I didn't either. I learn something new every day in my podcast.

[STACEY]

So now I'm actually on their membership committee. So I have to give them a little plug.

[CHRIS]

Isn't that funny, so Google connected you to holistic counseling?

[STACEY]

at year it was, probably like:

[CHRIS]

That sounds amazing.

[STACEY]

Yes, it was a lot of fun. So I got introduced there to comprehensive energy psychology and EFT. So I got more training in those two areas to bring in the energy stuff to my counseling practice.

Comprehensive energy psychology, what is that?

[STACEY]

Basically, it works on three energy systems. One is the meridians, one is the chakras and the other one is the biofield, which is the aura for some people, how they express what that is. Basically they are using muscle testing to ask the body where there might be stuck energy. The belief is that all negative emotions are just stuck energy and so if we can move the energy, which comes first, the energy is first, then we can move the memories and we can also move the sensations that people are feeling in their body, which then helps them bring in the cognitive piece.

[CHRIS]

And can you share what EFT is for those who aren't aware?

[STACEY]

Oh, emotional freedom technique.

[CHRIS]

And how does that work with clients?

[STACEY]

So that works with the meridians. Also it's tapping, some clients like to rub the Meridian points, others like to tap others like to hold it. We use different ones that coincide with the psychology. That acupuncture is actually used also to help move the energy.

[CHRIS]

I know I've learned a little bit about EFT and use some of it with clients, but I'm always unsure how often do they need to use it? Is it just when they're activated and feeling stressed or is this something that could be used preventatively?

[STACEY]

It can be used any time. Obviously, you don't want to do more than 30 minutes a day doing it. You don't want to overuse it, but basically it can be used to resolve trauma. It can be used to help with anxiety or sleep, pretty much anything, anger. It can also just be used to relax your body. I don't know if you've noticed when you tap the different points it's very relaxing and soothing inside.

[CHRIS]

So have you seen some significant results with clients that you teach EFT too?

[STACEY]

Oh yes, definitely. I just took the EFT one and two through the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology and they were teaching more about how to use it with trauma and they have different techniques, like the tearless trauma technique, which is really helpful for people who are having from zero to 10 on the leading high distress, because you put it into a box and it's like you're a witness versus you living it and getting re-traumatized. It's really cool.

[CHRIS]

So that's a different way to use it with trauma?

[STACEY]

Definitely. And I've seen at work with, I actually just had somebody who was in the middle of a tornado. It was hitting the building that they were in and we did some, I was actually, it was like four hours after and I had just met this client and had --- So I introduced it to him and I usually wait a little bit to energy techniques because sometimes people think it's weird or it is kind of out of the box? So anyways, we used it and he's like amazed by not having flashbacks. He even has to go back to that building and he's not having flashbacks.

[CHRIS]

I hope that helped with the flashbacks.

[STACEY]

Yes, and his sleep and anxiety.

[CHRIS]

One thing I noticed too, is it's hard to get clients to use it.

[STACEY]

Yes.

[CHRIS]

Have you been able to find a way to kind of convince clients or I guess help them figure out how can you use this consistently?

[STACEY]

Definitely. So I often say, when we are using it in session around something specific, they don't really need to use it because we've resolved it if that makes sense. But if they're having anxiety or something's coming up in between sessions, they can use it. I often give out the resource, the tapping solution because they have a lot of scripts and video on it and they did really good ---

[CHRIS]

What is that?

[STACEY]

Oh, the tapping solution? So they did a really good job getting the word out about tapping and they do really good marketing for it. So they have different information and ways to use it and scripts for patients to follow because often it's the words that people get flustered by. So sometimes I even just take the words out. I'm just do the tapping. So it's less confusing for them.

[CHRIS]

So can you share, what are some of the words for those that haven't used it before?

[STACEY]

Usually I'm just doing a setup statement like even though I'm anxious about this podcast.

[CHRIS]

Good one to be in the immediate moment.

[STACEY]

I am safe on the other end. So putting something positive on the other end and then running through all the tapping points from the head down, through the, underneath the armpit. We just say different statements on that, like I would find out what the sub level is, the distress level and I would say this and then go to the next point and say anxiety and just keep going through it with different words.

[CHRIS]

How often do you go through it, a tapping sequence?

[STACEY]

I usually bring it down to a zero, so it really depends on each person, but a lot of times ---

Oh, so the sub-level till it's a zero?

[STACEY]

Yes. Definitely. A lot of that takes at least three times. Then other times things pop up that they might think of something else that it's connected to. So then we tap around that and if I'm finding that it's not coming down, we might drink some water or check in and see like, are they feeling sick that day or do they not sleep enough, that kind of a thing, because that all interrupts the treatment.

[CHRIS]

It does. So you have to be really aware of where they are that day and what they're bringing.

[STACEY]

Exactly, if we're finding that it's not coming down on the sub level.

[CHRIS]

So you have to be really in tune to that?

[STACEY]

Yes. Then sometimes there's subconscious blocks and that's why I bring in the comprehensive of energy psychology because we can muscle test for that and clear them.

[CHRIS]

Oh, so you combine both of them?

[STACEY]

Yes. And comprehensive energy psychology has the meridians built into theirs. It's a little bit different. They don't use the words, they just tap and ask the body if there's any blocks and whether we should be using tapping or the chakras or the biofield, so depending on what the body wants.

[CHRIS]

So you ask the body for which area to work on?

[STACEY]

Yes, that energy.

[CHRIS]

I know I was reading, you had a blog article about clearing your aura. Can you share with listeners what is an aura and what are some quick tips to clear it?

[STACEY]

Sure. So the aura is the field around your body and it's a few feet out from you. And when you're around, a lot of people, all bringing it closer to your body is better so you don't pick up other people's energy. But some quick ways to clear it are using sound like tapping bowls or soothing music. You can also use your hands to go in front of your body and imagine you're clearing the energy down to the floor. You can also use visualizations, like imagining a waterfall coming over the top of your head and smoothing your aura or any negativity. I actually just put together a meditation for mental health therapists ---

[CHRIS]

That's what I was going to ask you. Fantastic.

[STACEY]

Yes, and it uses the waterfall.

[CHRIS]

That sounds great.

[STACEY]

And some other techniques to learn how to clear the field and then close it so that other people's energies aren't coming in and draining you.

[CHRIS]

So is this something that therapists should do every day when they're working with clients?

[STACEY]

Yes. So I learned this the hard way. So I loved counseling and there was a period of time where I was getting drained very easily and getting sick all that time and all of this stuff and I couldn't figure it out. I actually went to a shaman to help me learn about the energy and different things that could be behind it and it was like life changing. I was so impressed with it and started using crystals in my office and around myself and clearing all the time

[CHRIS]

Clearing, clearing, clearing?

[STACEY]

Yes, exactly, and then filling myself back up with energy.

[CHRIS]

How do you fill back up?

[STACEY]

Grounding and taking energy in from the earth or going up into the ethers and bringing energy down so that way it's filled in.

[CHRIS]

Wow, that's very interesting.

[STACEY]

I didn't even realize it existed prior.

[CHRIS]

I'm sure a lot of people don't know.

[STACEY]

Yes, exactly. I'm like, why did anybody teach me this in grad school? They teach you self care, but not on all the levels of our being. They teach you physically to exercise. They don't even teach you, I don't know about now, but when I was back then they didn't even teach me to make sure my mind was not on something stressful while I was exercising, because that kind of takes away from the self care piece. Like if you're thinking about your stress, how can you relax? How can your body relax?

[CHRIS]

And let it go.

[STACEY]

Exactly. So mindfulness was really a good help for me as well, learning that technique. But yes, they taught us to sleep well and eat well and all that kind of stuff, but it didn't really teach us about energy or our spirit, energy body.

[CHRIS]

I wonder if there's therapists out there that may not be aware of this and would there be signs that maybe that they need to do some clearing? How would they physically or emotionally feel?

[STACEY]

Definitely. I think that a lot, well, right now, I don't know about you, but I'm on Facebook in some of these therapist groups and I keep hearing I'm so drained. That is why I created this coaching program for mental health therapists because when the pandemic first happened, I was like, oh my gosh, this is what I've been learning about all this time, all the self care and how to do it and how to move through this without collapsing.

[CHRIS]

Did you say without collapsing?

[STACEY]

Yes, without collapsing and becoming burned out.

[CHRIS]

Or just like doing your work and then all you can do is go to the couch and lay down.

[STACEY]

Exactly. So with energy techniques, I figured out how to up my self-care to three times a day or more from doing it every other day, pre-pandemic. So that really helped me get through and I wanted to bring it to other mental health therapists so that they can also thrive during this time as well.

[CHRIS]

So have you noticed your energy shift when you're doing more of this clearing?

[STACEY]

It's not as drained and it also, I do energetic boundaries as well, like shielding.

[CHRIS]

Can you talk about that?

[STACEY]

Sure. So you just imagine a shield around you and I go over different ones in this course, but one can you just be a bubble around you in your aura and it's bouncing off any negativity and letting in love and light and all the positive. So that way you're not absorbing the negative energy.

[CHRIS]

I know that's so helpful. I do that as well. It really can start your day, and I think, especially for the therapists out there that work with trauma and heavier issues, because I find with, especially if I have a day that's like really heavy with a lot of difficult clients and I think I have to do more of the clearing and shielding because by the end of the day, I'm just like a zombie if I don't.

[STACEY]

Yes, definitely. I wish someone had taught me that early on. It is funny because the shield in the bubble didn't work for me as much, but I hear a lot of people offering it to people. So another one that ended up working better for me was putting yourself in a cube instead of the round shape, yes, the squares are more about like boundaries. Does that make sense versus ---

[CHRIS]

Yes, I'm just trying to imagine, visualize that, imagine that, what that would be like. I've never heard that.

[STACEY]

I just learned about it actually this year. Because I was wondering why the circle wasn't working as well but I used other techniques too, but then this one came along. I was like, oh, this is super easy?

[CHRIS]

Is that just certain people connect more to the square?

[STACEY]

So I think, well, I'm studying under Cindy Dale. I don't know if you know her, but she is like a chakra guru. It's kind of funny because the massage therapist that I was seeing way back 15 years ago, she introduced me to Cindy Dale's work. I don't know, I have like three of her books. I probably haven't read all of them.

[CHRIS]

Are you like me that you have all the stack of books that you're going to get to?

[STACEY]

Yes, one day. So I'm in her class and she was describing to us that circles are more about connection and bringing things towards you, energetically. So squares are more about boundaries and having things bounce off of you. That's where I learned it from.

[CHRIS]

That's good to know, especially for people that the circle doesn't work.

[STACEY]

Exactly. Exactly.

[CHRIS]

I think as therapists, we're all about trying to find those individual things that work for people.

[STACEY]

Yes, and you never know what's going to work. That's why I like to know a lot of different things.

[CHRIS]

Well, I know on your website you about talk about empaths. Can you share a little bit about that? You talk to clients about that at all?

[STACEY]

Yes, I talk to them about it all the time. So that was part of my integrating things too. So empaths are super porous to energy and they absorb energy and there's different kinds of impasse. But once they learn how to ground their energy and shield themselves, they have a much happier time in life. So that's why I like to teach them these techniques and others as well as others, but these are the main ones.

[CHRIS]

Because I wonder if that's part of being connected to that draining of energy and if you're able to connect so much to other people and their emotions that I would think that would drain you too.

[STACEY]

Yes. You mean me or them?

[CHRIS]

Anybody.

[STACEY]

Oh yes. Anybody is an empath, because I'm an empath too. So it is really important for us to understand what our energy is doing and how to clear it. I actually also as part of my work with them, because I can't integrate the healing stuff that I'm learning, I'll hand them off to somebody else to help them clear some of the stuff if they're having a hard time.

[CHRIS]

Okay, so like referring out to like a shaman?

[STACEY]

Yes, shaman or energy healer.

[CHRIS]

That's always good for us to remember too, that there are some times we do have to refer out to other holistic people.

[STACEY]

Exactly, especially if people are stuck, because sometimes there's past life stuff or there's family stuff, intergenerational trauma.

[CHRIS]

That's huge.

[STACEY]

Definitely. So there's all kinds of things that could be keeping them stuck. I'm all about helping people move forward as quickly as we can.

[CHRIS]

I think sometimes we got to remember we're only one person. We can't always be everything to everyone.

[STACEY]

Exactly. Exactly.

[CHRIS]

I know you mentioned chakras. Can you share what those are?

[STACEY]

So the chakras are our energy centers. They come in through the front and the back. There's seven main ones that everybody talks, but there's additional ones as well. Is there anything specific, sorry?

[CHRIS]

It's okay. I know some people may not be aware of what they are. So is there the same strategies to clear those as like the aura or is it different?

[STACEY]

It's a little different because they are in different spots in the middle of your body. So different people clear them differently. You kind of need to know where they are and it's hard to describe on a podcast. I could go through them if you wanted, but I don't know how much time we have.

[CHRIS]

You want to just go through and just tell us about maybe one of them and what might be a strategy?

[STACEY]

Sure. So the root chakra is in between the hips near their tailbone and it's red in color. It's often used when, it might be black when people are feeling unsafe in the world, because it's all about safety and security. So we might go in there and clear it through a visualization. How we do that is we just imagine like a red ball in that area. And it might be scuffed looking. So what you're going to do is you can imagine fire is helping to dissolve whatever is in there, use that element and then it will become more clear and vibrant in color.

[CHRIS]

So it's a lot of visualization.

[STACEY]

Yes, a lot of visualization.

[CHRIS]

I was trying to do it as you were talking. I was like, am I clear?

[STACEY]

That's great. Did it feel clear?

[CHRIS]

Yes, I think so. So I wonder, is it, you have to be somewhat intuitive, too, to tune into that or does that matter?

[STACEY]

Sometimes it takes practice for people. So I know in the beginning, when I was trying to learn all of this, a lot of people in our society are cut off from their bodies. So part of it is learning how to go within, into the middle of our bodies, with our imagination, to see where like the heart is and the lungs and the stomach, that area. It's hard to get in there.

[CHRIS]

I know. That's so true. But isn't a lot of trauma stored in the root chakra.

[STACEY]

Yes.

[CHRIS]

That's what I thought. The sense of safety is a lot of times disrupted.

[STACEY]

Definitely. Then that often affects the second chakra, you know about the emotions and then the third chakra with their power, feeling powerless, that kind of a thing.

[CHRIS]

There's so much with the synergy practice, isn't there?

[STACEY]

Definitely. And it's a lot of work to keep on top of it.

[CHRIS]

Exactly. I know. Some days I'm like, do I got to clear stuff again? This is that consistent practice that you got to keep up with, just like exercise.

[STACEY]

Exactly. That's why at night I'll put on a meditation and put my essential oils on the different chakras. So that way they're opening up and I'm clearing them from the day.

[CHRIS]

So what's a takeaway you could share today that could help listeners who might be starting their holistic journey?

[STACEY]

One thing is if you want to release energy pretty quickly, you can breathe in and out and when you breathe in, say the word relax and breathe out, say the word release and go into any part of your body that feels tension and do this. You'll start to notice that you can clear that energy out and your body will be able to relax.

[CHRIS]

Oh, that's really nice. So I would think that would be helpful at the end of a workday for therapists.

[STACEY]

Definitely. And it's super quick and easy. You can do it in between clients.

[CHRIS]

Exactly. So it inhales it to the, a place you feel like tension or feel heavy?

[STACEY]

Yes, and then just say the word relax first and then say release.

[CHRIS]

Then say release.

[STACEY]

When you exhale.

[CHRIS]

I love how simple that is.

[STACEY]

We definitely need simple.

[CHRIS]

I know. Nothing too complex where it's like a 30-minute protocol

[STACEY]

Exactly, exactly.

[CHRIS]

But I find for as far as energy goes that I have to get regular Reiki for myself. I think that helps me so much.

[STACEY]

Definitely. Definitely. I participate in Reiki shares because I'm a Reiki master and teacher of USSU, sorry, holy fire Reiki. Yes, I studied ZUI and then I became a teacher for the holy fire Reiki and that was really powerful. But I also go to somebody for craniosacral massage. I really enjoy that.

[CHRIS]

I love that too. That helps me with my migraines.

[STACEY]

Oh nice.

[CHRIS]

Well, Reiki does too. You know, I found Reiki to be the most effective thing for migraine for me.

[STACEY]

Definitely. I've done healing stuff for people with migraines and using also essential oils, like lavender on your neck when you feel like coming in. It's very ---

[CHRIS]

It does take a holistic approach for it.

[STACEY]

Definitely. Definitely.

[CHRIS]

So Stacey, have I missed anything else that you wanted to share?

[STACEY]

I just wanted to share my giveaway to the therapist, which is a quiz to see if you're burned out or on your way to burn out, or if you're doing your self care really well. Then in that quiz, I also offer on the results page a four-minute and 33 second meditation. I tried to make it short and sweet for clearing energy and also a self-care workbook.

[CHRIS]

That's a lot. Thank you for that. I'm sure that is coming very handy for people.

[STACEY]

I hope it's helpful.

[CHRIS]

Yes, and especially with burnout, because sometimes I think we're not always aware when it's happening right until we're like really extreme in the middle of it.

[STACEY]

Exactly. And during this pandemic, I think fall and winter again are going to be, it's going to be rough. It was really fun to help everybody through the last class that I ran in October and for seven months it was really transforming for them and it uplifted our spirits while we were going through this. So we were doing it together.

[CHRIS]

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

[STACEY]

Well thank you for having me.

[CHRIS]

I want to thank my listeners for continuing to support the show. And I will be putting Stacey's information in the show notes for you to find all those helpful things that she mentioned with the meditation and different workshops she has. If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcast. This is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time, take care.

If you're loving the show, will you rate review and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform? We just started this and that helps other people find this show. Also, if you're feeling uncertain about your modalities and you want to build your confidence to be your unique self, why don't you to join my free email course, Becoming a Holistic Counselor over at holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

In my Becoming a Holistic Counselor course, you'll get tips for adding integrative care into your practice, what training you need and don't, and the know-how to attract your ideal holistic clients. If this sounds like the direction you are headed, sign up at holisticcounselingpodcast.com.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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