Episode 103 8 Conceptual Touchstones For My Holistic Counseling Practice: Interview with Dr. Nyasha Grayman

Chris McDonald: This is Holistic Counseling, the podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Holistic Counseling Podcast. I am excited to be back after a month break from recording episodes for the holidays. A great time off. A little stressful and hectic with the holidays, but you know, it was really good to recharge, regenerate, and get ready for this new year of 2023.

And I did miss podcasting, I will say that. So having Mondays as my podcast day really starts my week out in a fun way, and I love all the people I get to meet. So it's good to be back. And speaking of podcasting and connections I have. Today's guest, Dr. Niha Gray, through Instagram. And a fun fact about her is she has a favorite sitcom, which is The Golden Girls, which I love that too.

I I used to love that show so much. But she's here to talk to you about her eight conceptual touchstones for her holistic counseling practice. Welcome to the podcast, Niha.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Oh, thank you for having me, Chris. I'm really happy to be here. .

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Can you tell my listeners more about yourself and your work?

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Sure.

So I am Dr. Niha Greenman, and I'm trained as a counseling psychologist originally from New York, a transplant resident to Maryland. I've been here for about 13 years now. I have a boutique. Private practice that focuses on grief and bereavement therapy for black women in the state of Maryland. And I'm also a professor of psychology and Africana studies at a Baltimore area College where I teach and I conduct research and I mentor the next generation of holistic counselors.

Woohoo .

Chris McDonald: That's so exciting. I love it. Yeah, that's why I was so glad that you were able to come on today. Cause I know my listeners will be so excited to learn from you. . Thank you. So how did you first learn about holistic counseling?

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: If memory serves me? Probably in graduate school, which was some time ago, I was introduced to different terms, holistic, integrative, eclectic.

I think probably eclectic was the first that I heard. Okay. Mm-hmm. . But the, you know, the meaning that they were all trying to convey was an approach to counseling that took into consideration. , the spiritual, emotional, psychological, the social, the physical elements of a being and what it means to be human into consideration as we work toward ameliorating experiences of distress and, uh, facilitating optimal functioning is, I, I think that that conceptualization or definition is, is still what I hold in mind is an approach to counseling that is, um, integrating.

Different dimensions of a human being. Yeah, I think that's

Chris McDonald: a perfect definition, really incorporating every part of ourselves, and I think it's so hard for me as a holistic counselor to imagine just not integrating. So just as a one-sided person, right? I can't, I can't imagine now.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Yeah, it's taken me decades to actually be able to practice yeah, fully, authentically, the way that I have fought for many years.

Um, it wasn't part of my training. Um, my training was traditional psychodynamic and New York University and they kind of really shunned cognitive behavioral therapeutic techniques. No one was talking about somatic. Techniques. Um, I, I mean, I think the only time I even heard any kind of derivative of somatics was in, in context of somatization and, and pathology, you know, and in my doctoral program, I was probably most aggressive about having professors integrate spirituality and spiritual orientations to conceptualizations and practice.

But even with that, it always stayed at a conceptual, because when you go into practicums and internships and externships, you weren't really given the space to be a theoretician as a practitioner. or to try integrative interventions. So in in that respect, I had to wait until I was done with my formal training

So to do what exactly I really

Chris McDonald: wanted to do. Yeah. That's so exciting though, to finally take that journey into that. And I know when I was in grad school, it was mentioned one time. I think. Yeah, I know. And there was no, nobody really talked about it and like, just like you, there was not the somatic or any of these other modalities out there.

So I just, I'm so happy to see the counseling field is moving in this direction of including more holistic practices.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Yeah, I am as well. Long time coming.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, for sure. So I know you mentioned that you wanted to talk about your conceptual touchstones. So how did you discover these of, cuz you said they're related to your practice of holistic counseling.

Yeah. How did you come up with this?

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: So I decided fall the end of fall 2018 to open a practice in Maryland. And as part of that, Practice building journey. I did a lot of research and a lot of study trying to figure out how to best structure the practice in a way that was going to be organic and authentic to who I am as a person.

That I felt that I'm gonna start this private practice and this is now going to be the time where I'm gonna pull together all of these thoughts and, and ideas that I have held. Decades at this point into application. And I needed to think about how to structure the systems and structure the practice in a way that was going to support the actual clinical work, very outcomes focused.

And so I started doing a deep dive into the different, uh, practice podcast. Uh, One that I started with was practice of the practice jok. And as I continued along, I, I realized there were different concepts from different podcasts that really felt resonant and gave me the language to describe what it was that I was trying to do.

And so, um, together, I kind of think of them as touchstones. Uh, foundational touchstones for my practice and how I structure it. And those are being energy motivated, heart-centered, high touch being niche, which before I started listening to the practices, I always called niched. I know my dear , uh, having your own.

Personal practice being someone who engages in slow marketing and slow growth, versus quick marketing and quick growth, entrepreneurial poverty, and trying to avoid that and staying in the fun stage of business that, you know, the. Eight of those together, so together stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The eight of those together really captured how I was trying to do this work as a now quote unquote business owner, which I'd never really thought of myself as a business owner.

Chris McDonald: I know it takes, takes a while. Well, I worked in the school system, so I was a school counselor. That was like a big transition from working. Yeah. In the school system too. Wow. I'm actually a business owner,

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: right? It's still not language that rolls off the tongue for me. I can say practice owner, but business owner, yeah, he doesn't really quite land the same, but all of those together kind of really spoke to the kind of practice owner that I wanted to be and how I wanted to do this work.

Chris McDonald: I love how you said it. You, it was from all your experiences of listening to podcasts mm-hmm. , and all the information that just you connected with. So energy motivated. So that was the first one you said. So what does

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: that mean? Right. So from the podcast, empathy Rising, I learned about this focus and being energy motivated.

There was an episode that focused on the top four motivations that we have. Practitioners and practice owners. And the first was money, the second time, third energy and fourth value. And of course, the, the take home is that we're motivated by all four to a different extent, but that there may be one motivation that is more salient than others.

And for me, I, I think it was. Motivated and that I realized that as I made decisions, every decision, decision from the electronic health record system that I was going to use, the number of clients that I would work with at one time, whether to remain a solo practitioner or go for developing a group practice, I realized was all very much connected.

My being an energy motivated person, that I make decisions based on what feels authentically resonant. I make decisions, uh, slowly. I like to move slow. Even before I started the practice, I was very. Interested in advocating for the slow professor movement. So even in that arena of my life, I like to take my time.

I like to go deep and broad rather than general breadth. And so I, I learned that this was a way, one way for me to check in with myself when I was making decisions about how to set up the practice of checking in. Is this energy aligned? in terms of what you're thinking about doing here and when it wasn't being willing to walk away from that.

Chris McDonald: So it sounds like, are these almost like values for

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: you? Mm-hmm. . Yeah, they are. Which is interesting because Right, one of the motivations is values. I was like, well, I'm also value motivated. The value for conserving energy and using energy in a way that's aligned. Yes. I would say that that's,

Chris McDonald: So do you periodically go back to these, especially with business

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: decisions?

I do. I do. Okay. I go back to these and I also re-listen to these episodes. Oh, mm-hmm. .

Chris McDonald: Wow. So you really are thoughtful on, on things that you do in business. Yes. So

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: heart-centered. So heart-centered, which even I think there's overlap between some of these, these values. Heart-centered. I first heard on the selling the couch.

Podcast, I love Melvin . Yes. Also a counseling psychologist. I was like, oh, counting psychologist and the Abundant Practice. Yes. Podcasts. Mm-hmm. both had episodes and interviews with individuals who talked about having heart-centered practices and. , in essence, they were speaking to having work that is meaningful and doing work that is meaningful, that is aligned.

So I think there's a lot of overlap with energy focus, I'm sure. Yeah. I'm just using the language that I've seen used in these different areas to describe. You know, these ways of being the therapist who's heart-centered is, is purpose-driven, is likely to be a high empath. And so they are going to maybe take on a smaller load of things so that they can go deep, so that they can have a very rich, and this goes in probably to the next value that I have a high touch experience.

And when I think about the type of therapist, That I wanna be, I wanna be a therapist who's accessible between sessions, who is able to offer a highly personalized experience, an individualized experience, and the type of therapist that gives each client the same, thoughtful, contemplative, grounded, centered energy, regardless of which day of the week they see.

which actually then goes into probably developing a personal practice and being niche. But that, that to me is, is, is kind of what it means to be heart-centered.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Cause I see how there're a lot of overlap with these mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , they're all connected. So, I know we talked before we hit record too, a little bit about your boutique style of therapy.

So I think this, if, if you don't mind sharing that just cause Cause I think this ties in well with, with the touchstones and what you're talking about and how do you set up your practice. Can you share that with

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: listeners? Sure. Right, so my practice is boutique, which means that I work with no more than six clients at a time thinking about the energy motivation.

I also onboard no more than two clients in a given month. In part, I do that because my structured integrative approach to grief therapy is intensive, which also then goes into the high touch kind of value that I have and the intensive looks. Something along the lines of working with me for five consecutive days, the first week that we work together.

Then four consecutive days, then three, then two, then once a week into what we consider a more traditional model. And my thinking behind that, and it's connected to kind of this heart-centered motivation, is that when you're acutely bereaved, the idea of having to. Six additional days before you can connect with your therapist.

Painful. I mean, and, and that I'm speaking from my own experience. And what I wanna do with that, with that intensive is establish a connection, a relationship, a rapport that I think is facilitative based on the research and best practices and trainings and trauma treatment and intervention. And the people who come to me are traumatically bereaved, for the most part, that will establish.

An environment, a context in which the client is able to experience some level of stability relatively quickly in, in our course of

Chris McDonald: treatment. Yeah. I think that's wonderful. Cause I, I think of bereaved clients I see as you were talking and I'm thinking this could be so beneficial, this practice. Mm-hmm.

of seeing them more in the beginning. . It sounds like you kind of titrate down

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: and Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Right. So

Chris McDonald: I know the other touchstone was personal practice. Mm-hmm. , so, so what does that mean to you?

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Right. So the importance of having a personal practice, I really got from Carla Herbert and her conversation on a trauma therapist podcast some years ago, and you talked.

Her approach to the work, and she is a grief therapist, a grief specialist, and she talks about the importance of having a personal practice. You know, we know from interpersonal neurobiology that we as therapists are significant tools of grounding and co-regulation for clients who are dysregulated. And a lot of the clients who I see when they first come, of course, to.

Right. They're dysregulated. And so the idea of having a practice that fine tunes your spirit, your body, your mind, your emotions as an instrument of co-regulation is very important in this work. And so for me, that means, Integrating things that I do on a daily basis that will tap into my four senses, that will involve sound healing, that involve, uh, breath work, that involve body movement thinking as an integrative therapist and as an integrative.

Being the importance of spiritual study and starting off with the importance of sleep and sleep hygiene. I say to people that my day starts with the night before and my sleep hygiene practice, and becoming very serious about that. Knowing that that is the foundation of a therapeutic experience for my clients is how well tuned I am as an integrative being.

I

Chris McDonald: love what you just said too. I was so well tuned. and I, I think people, especially therapists, sometimes forget the importance of a personal practice and how of that is a necessity. Mm-hmm. to really be integrated to best help our clients. Cuz a lot of us can just say, oh, here, you know, do some breath work and meditation, but I'm not going to, but you can.

Right. It's

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: really challenging. It's really, it's challenging in practice, I mean. Right. I. The five things I do, but actually engaging is, oh, yeah. Difficult. It means really being comfortable with saying no a lot. Mm-hmm. , because there are many, many, many demands on our time. Oh, absolutely. In addition to being, uh, Uh, holistic counselor and therapist.

I am also a professor. I'm a mother. I'm a wife. I'm a daughter. I'm a sister, I'm a friend. I'm a cousin. I'm a being, you know, who has her own needs. And so the, this prioritization, it's effortful. Yeah. It's because there are

Chris McDonald: multiple demands. How do you do it? Because you're juggling a

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: lot. I start with sleep, sleep.

Sleep first. Yeah, I do. I really do. I prioritize sleep. I really do, and I compartmentalize. I am a place, you know, there's a place for everything and everything in its place. Kind of person. And so I do block my schedule in that way. I have specific times when I see clients, uh, that's typically in the morning, uh, in the afternoons and the evenings is typically professorial work.

I also homeschool , so that's, um, God bless you, . Oh my goodness. Yeah, that's happening as well. But it's creating a space for everything with a cushion. Ah, very important to add to bookend the time blocks with cushions. With cushions, because life

Chris McDonald: happens. And I think that's so important with that flexibility too, and, and what you think may happen that day may not be , right?

Because other things come up and

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: right. . Right. And probably one of the har most difficult areas for me to put this into practice is around limiting the number of clients I work with. Because the, you know, the tendency is to try and, and work with everyone we can. Like, oh, I can squeeze someone in and I can schedule, and I have to constantly say to myself, you feel as though you have this expansive b.

Because right now everything is moving slow, you know smoothly. Yeah. But you know that life happens niha, and you need to create a cushion for when life happens. And so even though you may be skilled and could help this person, , the answer has to be no right now. So that's

Chris McDonald: the thoughts that go through your

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: mind.

Those are the thoughts that go through my mind. Which actually, um, makes me think about your previous episodes in your other podcast life with the episodes that focused on burnout to avoid that. Yes,

Chris McDonald: absolutely. That my Nothing left to give podcasts. Yes.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Nothing left to give to avoid. Burnout. Mm.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. I think that's such an important thing, that cushion.

I think people don't do that enough with their schedules.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Mm-hmm. , right. And so then thinking again, back to how do I structure this practice that allows me to have a cushion that helps me to avoid burnout? I had to think pragmatically about finances and money, which brings me to that whole notion of entrepreneurial.

Poverty and that I, I also had to be serious about avoiding that. Landmine therapists, I think in general are heart-centered and we're humanistic and we do this work because we want to help people , right? Hopefully, I had to figure out how to set fees in a way that. Would not lead me to be stressed and not lead me to feel anxious, to feel desperate as a therapist.

That gave me breathing room to focus on the self-care and the personal practice, keeping in mind that the practice is boutique and is going to be part-time so that I can stay in, and I think this is the last touchstone in that fun stage of business. That was another concept that I got from. One of Joe CEC's episodes of Practice of the Practice where the gentleman talked about four stages of business.

I don't even remember the other three because I said, and when I heard fun, I was like, that's me, you. You're like that? Yes. That's it. That is me. I wanna stay in the fun stages of business. I am not interested in scaling up. I'm not interested in having a group practice and taking. Supervisory and personnel and administrative roles in that way.

I want it to be as purely about the clinical work and helping people who are bereaved as much as possible. And so I'm gonna set all of the structures up so that I'm able to focus on being a therapist. That's so important.

Chris McDonald: Cause I think there's a lot of pressure to like scale up all the time. There is a lot of pressure.

Oh, you're still getting referrals and you need to have a group. And I'm telling you group is not for everybody. No. You know, I've had one. It's been difficult and I'm not sure I'm gonna

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: keep it. . Yes, yes. It's

Chris McDonald: just hard. It's just yes. Uh, there's so many nuances that you don't even think of that come up and yeah, and I like that fun thing about it.

The fun stage. What, what brings you there? It sounds like it helps you to stay in that focused realm of what you wanna do. Staying in alignment. Yeah,

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: staying in alignment, staying grounded. I can't remember the language that he gave to the stage beyond fun, but it's basically the reader that you step into where then you need to begin to outsource.

You need to. Uh, begin to kind of create recipes for the things that you're doing, and I don't, I don't wanna do that. And that goes back to being very high touch focus as well. I like the high touch, I like the contact. I like knowing all of the nuance is probably a piece of control. ,

Chris McDonald: I get it. Yeah. But I think too, it's, it's that pressure you hear too.

Especially if you're in Facebook groups and here all these podcasts of, oh, here you can, you know, have other ways to make money as a therapist and everybody feels like they have to do it. And you know, I think then you try some things and. A lot of work, , a lot of work, a lot of stress. Right.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: And also we have to create holistic counseling practices that are, yeah.

That are true to who we are. I also had to, as I listened to a lot of that pressure to scale up and develop a group practice and create multiple streams of income. Yes. I also had to listen to that, you know, through the lens of someone who is actually a full-time professor. And so I'm not necessarily in the same position, and so this might not be a message for.

And for my practice. That's great

Chris McDonald: self-talk. Yeah. This message may not be for me, so reminding yourself of that, but doesn't mean that you're a failure or it reflects on you poorly. I think it's just knowing where you are and what you want for your

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: career. Right. Making it your own. Right. Making it your own.

Because

Chris McDonald: I think it, it's hard, especially cuz I have multiple things I'm doing and it's hard some days it. Why am I doing this?

but I make it through, it's okay. Right? . Usually things can be ruined, but like you said, you know, life does happen. Things come up or personal stuff and you know, you gotta reroute and figure out. How you're gonna get through and get back on track. So going back to slow marketing, slow growth, can you talk about that one?

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Yes. That was, uh, another concept that I picked up from the Empathy Rising Podcast. When you're, when you're building a practice and if you're listening to the podcast, like you said, there's a lot of pressure to scale up to develop a group practice. And then there are a number of episodes that talk about marketing and, and different mindsets around marketing.

And marketing is a way really to introduce what you do to a community to let people know that you're here. And there are different approaches to doing that. And that can include paid advertisements, for example, like on Instagram, et cetera. Sure. So I tinkered with that a little bit, but it didn't quite.

Again, auth, authentic and organic to who I am, because I do like to do things slow and organically, or rather, I like to do things organically, which then typically means that I'm going slower. That's really how I should say it, because it means that it's going to take more time for the community to know I'm here and what I do.

rather than a pay ad, a paid ad. And from the Empathy Rising Podcast, I just learned the language that my approach to that is a slow approach. It's relationship intense, relationship high touch. These things take more time and they're slower to yield fruit, but they tend to, or they can yield hardier fruit in the long run.

And I think that's what I'm looking for. Practice that is small but mighty and sustainable. Yeah,

Chris McDonald: that's, that sounds, that sounds like a tagline, right? .

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: I like that. Maybe you'll see that on my website. I know. Next week.

Chris McDonald: What did you say? Small,

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: mighty, and sustain small, mighty sustainable. .

Chris McDonald: Mm-hmm. , because I've not heard of the slow marketing, slow growth.

That's new to me. The slow marketing, slow growth a lot. Yes. Yeah. I think a lot of therapists could benefit

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: from that. Yeah. And I remember the, the visual that the host gave us to think about it was to think of having a hundred guests in your house and how overwhelmed you would be. Yes, if you truly had a hundred people in your home and you were hosting them, and that, we tend to focus a lot on vanity metrics and how many followers we have on the different social media accounts, but you have no idea about the quality of, of the followers in terms of the, the nature of the relationship and that, you know, you may be a slow marketer and have 20 followers, but those are people who are really engaged.

and when something comes up, they're liable to pass that information on. So to not necessarily think that bigger is better or faster is better.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, agreed. When I went for therapy for myself one time I had a therapist I was trying to grow and he is like, you know, you can put things out in the universe and things that you want, but you know, just make sure you say to the universe that, don't send me any more clients than I can handle

Yes,

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: yes. That,

Chris McDonald: that has stuck with me cuz I'm like, yes. Yeah. Especially when you're, you know, business is slow and you need. But you don't wanna have like 25 referrals, and at least I don't in

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: a week . I agree. Right. You do, you do planting and you're like, okay, I've planted the entire field. You're like, uh, if a quarter of that field yields , you're in

Chris McDonald: trouble.

Yeah. So that can lead to overwhelm. So I think that yeah, that's true with a slow marketing, maybe that can just be the gradual pace into business and, and building it and I guess the way you want it to be.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: The way you, I want it to be built, the way that privileges, you know, being energy focused. Yeah. I need a lot of rest.

I am, uh, I am an adherent of the NA ministry with the Na Bishop, Tricia Heresy. And, um, yeah, I wanna be rested and in alignment. I don't want to be, as she said, booked and.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. That sounds like you're really good with boundaries too.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: I am, and I have been for a long time, I will say. How did you do that? I don't know.

I, I do think it's, it's a, it's a character disposition. It's something that people have told me at least since graduate training. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Professors have told me since graduate training, colleagues, uh, you know, at the college. Tell me that. So it's something I've, I've heard for a long time.

Chris McDonald: Yeah.

Cause I wonder if that's a mindset too, that people have to really get into that shift and mm-hmm. and just reminding themselves of what they are aligned with. Mm-hmm. , just like you did. And creating their own touchstones.

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: Right. Creating your own touchstones, and then being faithful to.

Chris McDonald: And faithful. Yeah, because, cause it sounds like you can't just say, Hey, I'm gonna do this and Right.

Not look at it again. You gotta really, it sounds like you've kind of ingrained these into your, who you are and your practice. So what have you noticed the results of. Your practice, so, cause you have a different kind of therapy practice. What are the outcomes for clients that you've worked

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: with? Yes, I've, I've been thinking about this a lot actually, as I revisit yet another podcast, practice building podcast that I, I enjoy is, uh, the one produced by the women from Xmi.

Yes. Um, Is I really, I, I like their approach to being outcomes focused as you build a practice and develop it and grow it. I would like to say that I've had really great outcomes, as a result. , I, let's see, I started the practice in 2020, so three years in that time. I have had two clients who did not complete the full 18 sessions, like the initial 18 sessions.

I have virtually no, no shows as a result of the way. Wow. Yes, yes. Hmm. I have very, very, very, very low attrition. I'm, I'm definitely doing much better than the R C T. The random controlled trial study . Yeah. Oh my gosh. Significantly better. And it's because, again, structurally I set things up in a way that really draw clients who are committed, who are conscientious, but also who are open to experience because they do know that I'm an integrative, uh, therapist.

And so they come open. And ready to engage in kind of different ways of, of healing modalities and thinking about that entrepreneurial poverty piece. A, a unique aspect of the thing I, I set up my practice in thinking about the entrepreneurial poverty piece. A unique aspect of the financial structure of my practice is that clients actually pay for a month of services upfront.

So it's almost like, oh, , almost like a therapy card, you know, that clients buy, if you will, and then the credit gets deducted over the course of the month, and so therapy is prepaid. And then I do submit super bills to clients for them to submit to insurance for reimbursement. But I think there is something about level of seriousness and commitment to the therapy, to the intensive therapy.

You can surmise from someone who is willing to do that,

Chris McDonald: that that really speaks o of your clients and who they are

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: And, and Right, right. How motivated they are and Right, and how motivated they are. Exactly. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: Oh, that's really cool. So what's a takeaway you could share today that could help listeners that might be just starting their holistic

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: journey?

Oh, I think that my favorite is wherever you go there, you. Mm. So deal with the self first. It's the foundation. It is of a thriving practice.

Chris McDonald: What's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: about you? Well, if you're interested in setting up a consultation because you're interested in working with me, you can go to my website at Wisdom counseling hyphen baltimore llc.com.

I am also on Instagram at Baltimore Grief, and I also post blogs relating to grief and bereavement on LinkedIn, so you can also find me on Linked. Oh, that's

Chris McDonald: great. And all of those will be in the show notes as well for our listeners to find. But I wanna thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Dr.

Neha. This has been a great discussion. Thank you

Dr. Nyasha Grayman: for having me, Chris. It's enjoyable.

Chris McDonald: And near reach, the end of another episode of the Holistic Counseling Podcast. Do you struggle with making yourself a priority? In my webinar series, holistic Self-Care Boundaries for Therapists. You can learn how to set emotional, physical, and.

Boundaries as well as some hands-on skills to help fill yourself up and stay grounded so you can boost your overall wellness. You can show up as your best self for clients. This is part of my holistic webinar recording series now. Available for $50 each, or three for 97. Check it out today@holisticcounselingpodcast.com slash holistic webinars.

And this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light in love. Till next time, take care. Thanks for being here and listening to this episode. Do you struggle to find time for self-care and end up at the bottom of your to-do list? My one hour webinar? Holistic Self-Care boundaries for therapists is for you.

Learn how to show up for yourself instead, emotional, physical, and energetic boundaries. Check it out today@holisticcounselingpodcast.com slash holistic webinar.