202 How Leah Brings Yoga Into The Therapy Room: Interview With Leah Barnes

Chris McDonald: Have you been wanting to bring yoga into the therapy room, but are unsure how? Ever wondered how yoga can become a powerful tool in therapy sessions? Join me today in this episode of Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, where we dive deep with Leah Barnes as she shares her unique approach to blending the principles of yoga into therapy sessions.

to help her clients heal and transform within. She details how she introduces yoga to clients, different practices she uses, and when she brings it into sessions. This episode is packed with insights that you don't want to miss on today's episode of yoga in the therapy room podcast. Stay tuned. Welcome to yoga in the therapy room, the non traditional therapist's guide to integrating yoga into your therapy practice.

I'm Chris McDonald, licensed therapist and registered yoga. Teacher. This podcast is here to empower therapists like you with the knowledge and confidence to bring yoga into their practice safely and ethically. So whether you're here to expand your skills, enhance your self-care, or both, you are in the right place.

Join me on this journey to help you be one step closer to bringing yoga into your therapy room.

Hey there, and welcome to the Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, non-traditional therapist guide. to integrating yoga into your therapy practice. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, and today I have an exciting and fun guest interview for you. In this episode, we're delving into the unique ways that Leah Barnes, licensed therapist, integrates yoga into the therapeutic space.

Leah is owner of Ridgeline Counseling and Supervision. She focuses on working with late diagnosed or suspected autistic and ADHD adults To get rid of internalized shame and ableism surrounding their neurotype and learn ways to work with their brain, not against it. We'll explore how she uses yoga practices to help clients connect more deeply with themselves, how it can help with nervous system regulation, and foster greater self awareness in healing.

She also talks about ways to keep it trauma informed. She even shares a special treat with you, her favorite yoga practice. So grab your mat, settle into a comfortable seat, and let's dive into the world of Yoga in the Therapy Room with Leah Barnes. Welcome to the Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, Leah. Hi, it's good to see you again.

Yeah, so you are on the Holistic Counseling podcast. I know we talked about intensives, which is a love of mine and yours. Yes,

Leah Barnes: very much so.

Chris McDonald: But I wanted to talk today to find out more about how you bring yoga in the therapy room. So can we start with how did you find yoga and why is it important to you?

Leah Barnes: So I had initially found yoga in a therapeutic sense, actually, when I was working with kids, we were always trying to find ways to regulate around bedtime and my own children's teachers at school were doing yoga with them in the classroom. So I was like, you know what, there's this YouTube channel. Why don't you throw this on that way we can get some movement before bedtime, but also regulating and grounding.

And I had so many families that it worked with and the parents were telling me this has been so helpful for me because I'm doing this with my kid and it's calming me down towards the end of the day. And then, as I've. Shifted my work away from children, I've wanted to be able to bring it in, but had always felt intimidated because I don't have the yoga teacher training any of that.

And you had actually put a post in a Facebook group about looking to start a training for yoga for therapists. And I said, that's what I need to do and joined your class. And just. Absolutely loved it just felt so more comfortable bringing yoga in with clients, especially with that mind shift around.

It's not a fitness class. We're not doing yoga to increase your flexibility or build strength. Although those can be things that happen, but really, when we're looking at regulating the nervous system, it just clicked and it fit.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and I know we talked about that before we hit record, it's demystifying therapy and how we can bring yoga in in a safe and ethical way.

And I think that a lot of people do get caught up on, like, I have to have, you know, a 200 hour or 500 hour of yoga training and fitness training and, you know, make it much bigger than it needs to be. But in my experience too, I don't know if you've noticed this, we're talking other there, but I think, uh, A lot of therapists are already bringing yoga in the therapy room.

Leah Barnes: Oh, absolutely. Especially with a lot of the somatic work and the body based work that people are doing nowadays that we're learning more about. It fits so naturally because we are talking about how the nervous system responds and how do we. Get somebody back into a regulated state and many of those somatic techniques that we use are very, very similar to yoga, if not identical and so it just fits so well.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, I was talking to another therapist who she was like, yeah, I don't know. I just, it really intimidates me. And I was talking to her. I was like, wait a second. So you bring mindfulness and grounding. That's yoga. We're just calling it a different name, different way of being right.

Leah Barnes: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a space where clients can get caught up as well, because as I've introduced to some folks, they're like, oh, well, I'm not really flexible or I've never done yoga before.

It's like, you know, we're just breathing and moving. That's essentially what we're doing. I'm not asking you to do headstands. You're not having to do a full twist. Like we're going to start by just rotating our hands. Something as simple as that.

Chris McDonald: Simple as that. That's yoga. That's yoga. Yeah. And that's why we're redefining it in this podcast.

So I guess going back to the core, so you took the yoga basics course with me. So I guess what else was helpful for you in that course?

Leah Barnes: I think getting away from the mindset of, I had had the misunderstanding that if I was bringing yoga into the therapy room, that we were doing yoga for the entire time.

And one of the much bigger takeaways for me was it doesn't have to be an hour of yoga. It doesn't even have to be 20 minutes. Of course, if that's where a client wants to go, that's where they want to go, but it can be as simple as. someone's getting dysregulated. Hey, let's take a minute. Let's ground, notice your feet on the ground.

Maybe move with your breathing. We're bringing in that mindfulness, even if it's just for a couple of minutes. So it doesn't have to be this huge, scary thing. It can truly be just, let's start off with some seated cat cow and just to get us in the room together.

Chris McDonald: So if you have a client who's never done yoga, has those images of Instagram in their mind, I know you started to talk about that a little bit.

Can you just talk a little bit more about how would you introduce yoga? Because the more traditional clients that come and just think it's just sitting and talking and that's it in therapy. So this is, you know, This is very new for a lot of clients as well.

Leah Barnes: Yeah. I start with a lot of, I do a lot of psychoeducation on how the brain works, whether as a trauma response or even when we're talking anxiety or depression and a lot of the physiological responses that we have.

And then how do we address that from a physiological aspect, you know, as well as talk therapy, but there's also these other things that we can do with our body when our brain and our body kind of aren't aligned. So I'll start by giving the explanation of deep breathing. You know, we talk about if you're upset, take some deep breaths.

That's even a part of yoga. And it, and a lot of it is just getting into the, again, we're not doing headstands. You're not having to do anything way out there. I do a lot of the orienting reflex where you have somebody just slowly turn their head and look around the room to notice where they are. It's a good grounding technique.

I'll even bring that back, like, that's very similar to a lot of yoga practices that we're talking about. If I have someone who's really resistant to the term yoga, I may not necessarily use that term ahead of time, but just we're going to do some body based work here. And being completely virtual, they know that I'm not touching them.

But if I were to see somebody in set in person, it would be, you know, not body based, like hands on, but just, I'm going to have you do some movement and just notice how that feels for your nervous system. I have never had somebody Try it and then not

Chris McDonald: want to continue to do it. Ah, yeah, that's interesting, right?

I'm trying to think if I have either. I haven't. No, I think most people, it's a surprise that they're like, Whoa, wait a second. I feel really good.

Leah Barnes: Yeah, that this actually worked. And I don't have to be this Instagram influencer in order to feel that impact

Chris McDonald: from it. Just remembering listeners to this is for everyone, you know, of course this client if they want to do if they don't then we do something else, but this is always available accessible for everyone.

Yes, absolutely. Not just those who are super fit.

Leah Barnes: Yeah, and that's something that I work a lot with dismantling with folks, because I do have a lot of clients with. hypermobility issues, so they have to be very careful about movement and we're able to really talk about getting into your body and truly noticing what's happening with your body.

It's not you trying to keep up with a class or an instructor on YouTube, like we're very much, what is this like for you as an individual and what is your individual body okay doing?

Chris McDonald: As far as a typical therapy session with yoga, so when do you bring it in? Because I know that's a question that I get a lot, a lot of questions from listeners on.

Leah Barnes: So your favorite therapist answer, it depends on the client needs. I have some folks who like to start there just as a way of. getting into the space. I find, especially with my folks where we're meeting during their work day, we'll typically start with like a five minute grounding, maybe a little bit of movement, and then end with that as well to have those really nice bookends for the session.

With some folks, we will do it just kind of intuitively as the session goes on. Certainly if I'm noticing someone is getting dysregulated. Caveat to that, usually we've discussed these techniques ahead of time. So as we're talking about things that are dysregulating for them, hey, here's this thing that can be really helpful.

Let's try this together. Let's practice this together. Notice what it's like when maybe you're not quite as escalated, quite as dysregulated just to get a feel for it. And then we're more able to bring that back in. In those moments where they're feeling out of their body, typically with my clients and the folks that I work with, we're doing kind of 5, 10 minutes here and there when I'm doing an intensive with somebody, we will spend more time doing yoga again.

That's going to be more at the beginning at the end where we may have. 20 minutes or so of really getting into the space and then closing up that session.

Chris McDonald: And can you just share for those who aren't aware what a therapy intensive is?

Leah Barnes: Yes. So therapy intensive is, I think of it similar to a retreat, but not, you don't necessarily have to go anywhere.

We're talking in an extended therapy session, usually three hours or over. where you're really digging deep into one particular thing. I use a lot of brain spotting with mine. I know you do as well. A lot of folks will do EMDR. I've even done some with just navigating an ADHD or autism diagnosis with folks.

And even there, we'll bring in some yoga with that because it can be so, the emotions can get so big, but the intensive is a nice, way to really like dedicate time to just this thing without having life getting in the way.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I, what I found already with the intensives I done is it's the pacing. I don't feel that rush to be like, okay, how much time do we have left session?

Okay. I don't want to leave them too dysregulated at the end. So, okay, make sure we got to get to ground. You know, it just feels more rushed.

Leah Barnes: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. That, and you get so much time to tease things apart. Whereas again, you're not having to wrap up within that, you know, 45 minutes to an hour. You have time to also get deep in ways that is sometimes really difficult in a traditional therapy session.

Chris McDonald: Absolutely. So how do you determine what yoga techniques to use or do you use different ones with different clients? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Leah Barnes: Different ones with different clients. Some of that will depend on their knowledge coming in. So I've had a few folks that I've worked with that have actually been registered yoga teachers.

I think everyone has been at the 200 level. I don't think I've had anybody with the 500 hour training. But so with those folks, we're really talking about bringing in the skills that they already have. Yeah. And how are they using those either in therapy or outside of therapy? With folks who are newer, we start very, very slow, really with some breathing.

I have a personal love, as you can tell, for cat cow, whether we're doing that seated or kneeling. I would say that is my favorite because it's It's, it doesn't require a ton physically, but there's enough movement to be in your body and it's so, I find it easier to slow down your breath with the movement.

So that tends to be a starting point for me after we're getting into breath work, of course we're talking about. Breathing in through your nose, slowly exhaling through your mouth, bringing in that mindfulness piece of noticing what's happening, what this feels like for you. That's the one that I would say that I use the most.

Also being completely telehealth, that's an easy enough one for me to demonstrate while I'm seated, they're seated, and I'm over the computer as

Chris McDonald: well. Yeah, and I think that's something that we didn't mention was that we're not talking to always bring out a mat for yoga, are we? Can you share about, you're using more, is it seated practices in some standing?

Leah Barnes: Most seated every once in a while standing. I mean, even in the car, I've had some clients who the only privacy they can get is in their car on their lunch break. And I know we did, you did a whole series in the class about yoga in the car. And it's amazing. It's been great because, okay, can you hold the steering wheel and move?

Or can you, there was one with the shoulder stretch, headrest, and then putting

Chris McDonald: your hands like below the seat and just see if you can shift your body forward and feel that in your shoulders.

Leah Barnes: Yeah. All of these really great things that we often think of, Oh, I can't do yoga with this person because they have to sit in their car.

And that's not true. You can really do it. Anywhere.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, and I wonder if that's what some therapists think, too. It's like, oh, I got to get a yoga mat. We got to get on the floor. We got to lay down. No, there's so many ways to bring yoga in the therapy room. Yeah,

Leah Barnes: absolutely. And, you know, with physical health issues as well, again, if there's.

Mobility issues, anything like that, like, we can really tailor to what they need that it doesn't have to look the way it necessarily would in a class. Although we know that even in a yoga class for fitness, there should be a piece of listening to your body. But we do get caught up in other people are around us or what the instructor is able to do.

And that's one of the, one of the things that I love so much about bringing it into the therapy room with it being one on one and not a yoga class that I find it gives clients more of that freedom to feel not judged and to really get intuitive and again, getting into their bodies and listening to what's going on.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I think we didn't mention either that we're not talking about super fast yoga. So this is more about the slow, mindful movements so they can really connect to their body, connect to their breath, because we have to allow space for that. Can you talk about that?

Leah Barnes: Yeah, I, hands down. So one of the ways that I use yoga a lot is actually with my clients with ADHD as we're trying to slow things down.

Mindfulness in a traditional sense can sometimes be very hard for those of us with ADHD because our bodies need to move and we need something to think about and something to focus on. And so, We can set the tone with yoga, there's still movement, but we can also talk about slowing it down, right, bringing your thoughts, bringing your attention to what's happening in your body, so it's not just this abstract, clear your mind, it's notice how that feels in your back, what are you feeling in your shoulders as you're doing that, what are you noticing about your breathing, Let's play with that.

Can we slow it down? I'm generally not speeding it up with folks, although I have had some where, let's see what happens if we move a little bit faster. And again, like we can tailor it to the person, but I find, especially with really slowing it down, I'm also not having folks hold poses for an extended period of time.

I mean, I think about, again, in a fitness class where you're in a warrior two pose for maybe a minute or even longer, yeah. Feel the burn. Like, no, I'm not asking you to feel the burn. We're going to move, but we're going to bring intentionality to it. And we are. Generally speaking, with clients I work with, we're working on slowing it down.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Cause I think most people move through life fast and keep moving, keep going. We're more in the doing mode and yoga brings us to the being mode.

Leah Barnes: Yes.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Which is unfamiliar.

Leah Barnes: Yes. It's unfamiliar. And it's, but it's also we're being, and there is an aspect of being that we're doing just not in that driven way.

And I think, again, like with ADHDers, it really is because I'm not asking you to sit still. You are moving your body. We're just bringing awareness to it and attention to it. And again, that slowing it down. So we're not getting frantic and kind of chaotic.

Chris McDonald: And from nervous system regulation, we can be in that sympathetic too because I have people that Oh, I've been busy all day and then they get to bed at night and their mind's racing because they have not slowed down.

Yeah. And that's what's amazing with these practices. We can teach them these and they can learn to practice them at home as well.

Leah Barnes: Yes. Bedtime, especially. I mean, like I said, that's how I kind of stumbled across using yoga in therapy was with kids having trouble with bedtime, but you're absolutely right.

As adults, we just go, go, go, go, go all day. And having that time to be and to slow down and to really notice our bodies is Yes. Can be hugely regulating.

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and fit yoga to tailor your approach for therapeutic settings. Get started with confidence and develop skills essential for integrating yoga into your practice, how to create a trauma informed approach. And you even get a script to help you learn how to guide clients safely through a yoga sequence for anxiety, transform your clinical sessions and empower your clients with the healing power of yoga today.

All of this, including one CE for only 65. Go to hcpodcast. org. Slash Startup Yoga. That's HC podcast.org/startup yoga today. Have you had any challenges with integrating yoga into therapy?

Leah Barnes: One of the biggest challenges, again, being completely telehealth, has been when folks are having to meet from a phone rather than a larger screen.

And a lot of that is their ability to see what I'm modeling, because usually they can hold the phone a little bit further away so I can see what they're doing, just if there's any cues I need to give, anything that I need to notice. I would say that's probably been the biggest barrier and we can generally work around it.

I haven't had it be a, a stopping point with anyone. It's been more of we just need to get a little bit more creative with how we're going to do this.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So it's possible both telehealth and in person. So I think for listeners, just to keep that in mind, if you are all telehealth, you know, there are, there are options and opportunities to integrate in different ways.

So what is some success stories you've had with integrating yoga?

Leah Barnes: One of the biggest things I would say has been from my ADHD years that yoga has allowed them to implement a mindfulness practice. I mean, we know that there's so much overlap between the two and I, I'm not sure that I would say you can do yoga without the mindfulness piece.

I mean, I guess you could, but. They're pretty integrated in my mind, for sure, but being able to have that practice of being of noticing while also still having that movement that has been huge for a lot of the folks that I've worked with. I mean, there's been feedback on this is the only way that I've ever been able to do any mindfulness or even any breathing practice because you're not asking me to sit still and they've been told that their

Chris McDonald: whole

Leah Barnes: life.

Chris McDonald: Yeah,

Leah Barnes: right. And we know that mindfulness is helpful with ADHD. But again, there's that barrier of I can't just sit here and do nothing. And so that's really been huge for so many of my clients. I would say that piece and then that parent child co regulation, even though I only work with adults right now, parenting comes up during sessions.

And so we'll talk about, Hey, these things that we've been doing in therapy. Try this with your kid and, oh wow, I would have never thought of that. And yeah, this has been helpful for both of us when we're getting upset, when we're getting dysregulated.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, absolutely. It's another way to integrate learning for them too.

And then if they're teaching it to someone else. And

Leah Barnes: even when they can't, um, you know, throw on, there's a couple of kids, YouTube yoga channels might throw on one of those and do it together. Even though this is geared for four year olds, you as an adult can get a benefit too. And that's, I think has been really appreciated, especially because, yeah, it's 10 minutes.

It's kind of silly. We're doing Minecraft yoga, and yet it's helpful for my child and for me.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Hey, dual benefit, right? Yeah. Yeah. How do you keep it trauma informed in your practice?

Leah Barnes: Making sure clients feel that sense of safety and that's so ambiguous and, you know, there's no like checkbox for right, you're safe, but I think that rapport ahead of time, really letting them know you absolutely don't have to do anything that you don't want to do and backing that up that I'm not going to push yoga on anybody.

And if you are absolutely not willing to try, absolutely, we also go through, generally speaking, we're going through sensory systems ahead of time and looking at what are things that are regulating for you? What are things that are dysregulating for you? And so if I know someone needs a lot of deep pressure that that's a regulating piece for them, if we're doing, again, seated cat cow, I'm going to be aware of giving cues of You know, make sure that you're aware of how much pressure that you're putting on your legs as you're doing this in a way that feels good to you.

Having language where, you know, if you're doing some like chest, you know, stretching out and then closing up, you don't have to touch yourself if that doesn't feel good for you. Like really giving them the freedom to truly follow what their body needs and what their body doesn't. There's also, if there's pieces of their trauma that I'm aware of if there are poses that may be more triggering for that, I'm staying away from those at least at the beginning.

So anyone who has been restrained at any point in time, we're not doing a lot with your hands over your head. Certainly not to begin with. We're going to start in much safer feeling ways if we even move on to that at all, and we may not, and that's okay.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, so it sounds like really individualizing the approach as well.

Yeah, absolutely. How has yoga helped you personally? All

Leah Barnes: of the ways

Chris McDonald: that it

Leah Barnes: helps our clients, right? Yes. Being, you know, there's the nervous system regulation piece. There's the, I mean, on the therapist side, it's hard work. We do hard work. We carry pieces of our clients trauma with us. And so it's helped me to get back into my own body.

And out of the therapy room and even a piece of sitting at a desk all day, I mean, there are times where I'm doing some of those poses just from a purely, I need to move my body standpoint. I have absolutely used it with my kids as well, my personal children that live at my house with me, um, when they're getting dysregulated.

Yeah, and really just all of those ways that we use it with clients.

Chris McDonald: So can you share what is a favorite yoga practice? Can you teach us and walk us through a short one?

Leah Barnes: Well, of course, cat cow. I knew that was coming. Yeah. We generally start, I won't lead through a grounding exercise to start with. Usually you've kind of done that, like noticing your feet on the floor, getting into the room, taking a few deep breaths.

breaths.

I like to start feet on the floor. I know you can't see, but my hands are on my knees and they can be on your legs. Or if that's not comfortable for you, you certainly can rest your hands on the desk or anywhere else. And just taking a deep breath in and leaning a little bit forward. If your head back feels comfortable for you, if not, it's perfectly fine to look ahead.

And then as you exhale, just round into your back again as far or as not far as feels comfortable. And just kind of continue to flow with your breath on the forward on the inhale, back on the exhale. And if it feels okay for you, you can move your hands on your legs as you breathe. And if not, that's okay too.

And in the sake of time, we'll just kind of rest back at center. Just notice how that feels. Anything that feels different from before you started. Where do you notice those differences in your body? I know for me, that always feels like it helps loosen the tension in my shoulders. And any tension that I carry in my lower back as well, but that's not the same for everyone.

Different people will notice in different ways. I feel so much calmer. Thank you, Leah. You're welcome.

Chris McDonald: I hope listeners do as well. Yeah. I just wanted to high five you for all the trauma informed cues. I was like, yes, she's got it going on for sure. So if you're not sure what trauma informed is, you just learned a trauma informed practice.

So yeah. And I also found Catco that seems to be a favorite of clients as well. They really love that.

Leah Barnes: Yeah, I think I just, I love how it flows so relatively naturally with the breath. And again, it's easy enough to keep your own pace and. Just with any kind of shoulder issues, back issues, it just seems like one that's easy enough to accommodate without feeling like you're making those accommodations.

And even though, no matter what accommodations a human needs, that is valid. And that is You know, we should all be getting our needs met. There also is the reality that sometimes we can feel shame about those. And I find that Cat Cow in particular doesn't have that same feel of, Oh, well, I'm not twisting all of the way, or I'm not extending my chest as far back as I can.

It just feels like a good, safe space to start. Yeah. And

Chris McDonald: go, and I love what you say, just going as far as you want to go or not. You know, it doesn't have to be this huge movement. And I think that a lot of people may not be aware that cat cow, there's lots of versions, and you can do it seated. You can do it standing.

It doesn't have to be on the mat.

Leah Barnes: Yeah, I do love a good kneeling cat cow. That's one of my between sessions, I'll hop down on the floor real quick. But again, it works just as well seated as well and standing.

Chris McDonald: So what would be a takeaway for therapists listening who have not integrated yoga in session are thinking about it, but are hesitant?

What would you tell them?

Leah Barnes: Go ahead and get started. Remember that you're not leading a yoga class, that it can be something as simple as just moving your body with your breath. It's not as big and scary as we make it sound. It can be just One pose that you do with clients, but it can make such a huge difference for them.

What's the best way for listeners

Chris McDonald: to find you

Leah Barnes: and learn more about

Chris McDonald: you?

Leah Barnes: Best way is probably my website, RidgelineCAS. com. And I'll see you there. On my socials, which I always forget off the top of my head, pretty sure you have them website is the best way though, email, there's a phone number on their text messages are fine because that's a separate secure work line.

Chris McDonald: Sure. And we'll have that in the show notes as well. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Leah. Yes, thank you again so much for having me. Yeah, this has been great. And that brings us to the end of another episode. Be sure to tune in next Wednesday when another episode drops. And thank you listeners for joining us today.

Have you been interested in integrating yoga into sessions but are unsure how? How would you like to earn one CE credit as well as one hour course on learning how to integrate? Yoga into sessions. So you will learn the basic strategies for getting started, including room setup, how to keep a trauma informed, a script included, and you can get all of this for one price.

So go to hcpodcast. org forward slash startup yoga. That's hcpodcast. org. dot org forward slash startup yoga. And once again, this is Chris MacDonald sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time, take care. Thanks for listening to today's episode. The information in this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only.

It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher Or the guests are giving legal, medical, psychological, or any other kind of professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. Yoga is not recommended for everyone and it's not safe under certain medical conditions.

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