Episode 190 NeuroMeditation | Bridging Ancient Practices With Modern Neuroscience For Mental Wellness: Interview With Stephanie Best

Chris McDonald: Have you ever wondered how the ancient practice of meditation could be supercharged by modern neuroscience? Want to learn how neuromeditation can help you reduce anxiety, improve focus, and manage chronic pain? Today, discover how this cutting edge approach can help create personalized meditation practices that can transform mental health.

Whatever help you're looking for, neuromeditation offers a revolutionary path to well being. Don't miss this enlightening conversation on bridging the gap between the mind and the brain for a healthier you on today's episode of the holistic counseling podcast. Stay tuned.

This is holistic counseling podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

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In it, we will explore how to protect yourself against liability as a holistic therapist. You will learn more about scope of practice versus scope of competence and informed consent. Also addressed is how you can expand your therapy practice ethically into the holistic realms and where to draw the line.

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Welcome to today's episode of the holistic counseling podcast. I'm so glad you're here with me. I have a question for you. What if you could personalize your meditation practice based on your own unique needs? This is the promise of neural meditation, a groundbreaking approach that combines the wisdom of traditional meditation with the precision of modern neuroscience.

In this episode, we'll dive deep into what neural meditation is, how it works and the incredible benefits it can offer you and your clients. We'll be joined by Stephanie Best, who is a licensed clinical psychologist and certified neural meditation trainer. She is passionate about helping high achieving anxious women Discover their brilliance by connecting with their purpose, prioritizing their wellness, and living a courageously values driven life.

She will share insights into how this practice is revolutionizing the way we think about mental health. So sit back, relax, and get ready to embark on a journey that bridges the gap between mind and brain for a healthy, more balanced life. Let's get started. Welcome to the holistic counseling podcast, Stephanie.

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. So let's start with what first interested you in meditation practices.

Stephanie Best: So I had a very non linear career path. And I was, uh, I was out in California in my early twenties, uh, in a doctoral program for biology of all things. And I was barreling toward what I now affectionately refer to as my quarter life crisis, which, uh, at the time was terribly distressing.

And I looked at it as a, just an utter failure. And now I look at it as one of the great successes of my life. And I'm, I'm so grateful for it because I think as we often know, the longer we are in club human. It's these real, you know, these crucibles of hardship that show up in our lives from time to time that really can bring the greatest gifts.

And for me, that was definitely the case in California when I was realizing that wasn't the path that I wanted to take for the rest of my life, but I didn't know what else to do. And I was really struggling deeply mentally and emotionally having a lot of anxiety, a lot of depression. A lot of just feeling aimless, you know, this was what I thought I wanted to do since I was 10 years old and there I was, you know, all the way at my dream school with the National Science Foundation Fellowship and really realized this isn't, this isn't it, but I don't know what's next.

So, in the process of just starting to heal from that, I got introduced. to a couple of things that have since become lifelines for me and were very common in California in the late nineties and that's yoga and meditation. And that was really my very first experience with it. And it's been in my life ever since.

Chris McDonald: I'm right there with you. It's been a while. Yes. So I was so excited when you mentioned that there's this practice called neuromeditation because before I hit record, I know I was telling you, I've never heard of this. So can you share what neuromeditation is and how is it different from other meditation practices?

Stephanie Best: Sure. Sure. So when I first started meditating, I think my path, my kind of arc over the years is similar to a lot of people's. I didn't have much instruction at the beginning, and we've got all these wonderful apps nowadays, but that wasn't really around in the late nineties. You know, I sort of dabbled, kind of dipped my toes in the water a little, didn't really know what I was doing.

Thought, oh, this is kind of cool and sometimes peaceful, but it really didn't stick. I didn't have any kind of consistent practice. It was hard to find a teacher. And then later when I was a doctoral student in clinical psychology at Duke, I was It's you know, someone recommended to me the, the Duke integrative medicine program, mindfulness based stress reduction, MBSR.

And that was at another transition time in my life. This was years down the road, but I had a mentor that I really loved at Duke and he led an hour long weekly lunchtime meditation for any Duke employee or graduate student that was working at the Duke child and family study center at the time. And you know, I, I would go to those at lunchtime and it was like something, something's here.

There's something about this and I was going through a divorce and I just the invitation seemed, it just seemed right. And so I went to this 8 week mindfulness based stress reduction class and having an instructor and a weekly program and ability to come back and talk to other people in a group about it that really showed me something about.

what was possible through this. I was having lower levels of anxiety than I feel like I'd ever had, meditating an hour a day, which is what they ask you to do when you're in that, and learning different ways of being mindful and applying that to my life. So I was more regular about it for a while then.

And then I started up my first private practice and life got very busy. And I think like most people, again, it was sort of, you know, in and out on the path, off the path, I found apps, which I still think are great, like headspace and calm. And, you know, I think they've been around for a long time for good reason.

There there's a lot of beautiful content on them, but again, it was sort of other than maybe some of these little introductory. Programs that were maybe like the seven days of calm, you know, that it was like then what, and when you log on, there's this huge library and, or even insight timer, which I think is another beautiful app, but it's huge libraries and you log in and it's like, okay, pick something.

And I thought that sounded so fantastic. I, I am a very passionate about a mindfulness based therapy, acceptance and commitment therapy. That's one of my specialties. So, um, in the process of starting to prepare for this, I came across Uh, my, who's now my mentor and dear friend, he's, um, Dr. Jeff Tarrant. He's the director of a place in Oregon called the Neuromeditation Institute.

And he had written a book called Meditation Interventions to Rewire the Brain. And I reached out to him because it really seemed like it was overlapping a lot with the sorts of things Pesci wanted me to teach about. And he said, I'm so glad you reached out. Can we talk? And we started chatting. And he said, I'd like to teach you, you know, how we're looking at teaching this.

So I met with him for 22 weeks and we met and he taught me this entire approach and it absolutely changed my meditation practice for forever. What I learned and what I love to teach people about is that not all meditation styles. impact the brain the same way. And, you know, we know that within the last 15, 20 years, there's been significant advances in the field of neuroscience in terms of how we can image the brain, learn what it's doing.

And, you know, when, when you look at the body of research on how meditation impacts the brain and you basically, you know, categorize it based on the attention of the meditator, where's the meditator placing their attention, right? So if I ask you to and you close your eyes. And I'm looking at you. I don't know what you're doing in there.

You could be doing a lot of different things in there, right? Creating

Chris McDonald: grocery lists or Yeah, you know, because we

Stephanie Best: often will do when we're meditating. You know, let's think about just a couple of common types of meditation. Okay, a breath focus. So maybe you're focusing on the feeling of the air coming in and out of your nostrils.

versus say a love and kindness meditation where you're generating, you know, feelings of love and compassion and sending them out to different people in your life. Well, that's a very different place to put your attention, right? So where's the meditator putting their attention? What's the intention of the practice?

So in these examples, Is the intention to really hone and develop a narrow, sharp focus, or is the intention to really expand the heart and develop more access to positive feelings and connection with others? Right? That's another type of intention. So, what's the intention of the practice? What is the brainwave signature?

So, which parts of the brain are activated? With fast brainwaves, which parts of the brain are quieted with slower brainwaves when you do a type of meditation, all of these different things, when you look at them, the, in the research, you can really break it down into four main styles. And so it's called focus.

mindfulness, open heart and quiet mind. And I can talk a little later about what those are, but that's really the four styles of neuro meditation, which is really neuro meditation is just the application of the latest neuroscience, these brain based principles to this ancient practice. So that people can understand, okay, when I'm doing this, this is how it's impacting the brain.

And depending on my personal goals or the baseline state of my brain and my nervous system, what is it that I need to really balance it? And how can I individualize my practice and reach my goals? Optimal wellness. Now that was a lot of jargon,

Chris McDonald: but you're speaking my language because I love neuroscience and learning about the brain, but that's so exciting to know that I didn't know that that meditation, depending on the meditation affects different parts of the brain.

Stephanie Best: It does. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. So 1 example is when you're doing a focus meditation, like the 1 I was describing and you're simply noticing the feeling of the air coming in and out of your nostrils. It turns out that it activates a part of your brain, particularly in the frontal lobes, the anterior cingulate and that's the same.

part of the brain that's stimulated when you give someone with ADHD stimulant medication, for instance. But it turns out if you do focus meditation over long periods of time, you could reshape the brain in the same kind of way. And that's the beauty of neuroplasticity is we can change the very structure and form.

function of our brains until the day that we die. And these ancient practices, these styles of meditation are one way to do that. So if someone's goal is really to improve their focus, that would be a great meditation to try. Um, it's also very activating to the brain in general. On the other hand, if someone is really anxious, let's say.

When we look at an anxious brain, we see that there are these, you know, fast brainwaves. They're called beta waves that sort of are predominating all over the brain. It's just kind of on fire. And that's sort of what it feels like to be anxious, thoughts racing, you know. So when we do mindfulness meditations, and there's a lot of different types of mindfulness meditations, but they're all really about just learning how to sit back and watch whatever is going by, whether it's, you know, thoughts, emotions, body sensations in this very nonjudgmental, objective, nonreactive way, hopefully with some curiosity and with some compassion.

So kind of almost. Learning how to watch thoughts and feelings flow by like clouds going across the sky without attaching to them without reacting to them when we learn how to do that style of meditation, watching what shows up, letting it pass by not reacting to it. That really quiets the brain. It brings in these other quieter brain waves in particular theta waves, which is like the type of brain wave.

That's just a little faster. Then the waves we produce when we're sleeping and it really quiets down some of the parts of the brain that are most activated when we're anxious in particular in the frontal midline region. All right. And so again, it's like that's a frontal midline quieting versus if you're doing a focus meditation and you're actually activating parts of the frontal lobe and the anterior cingulate.

So you want to really be conscious of what style of meditation you're using. And is that what your nervous system might need today or does it mean something different? Yeah.

Chris McDonald: How do we know what we need?

Stephanie Best: That's a great question. So I, you know, one thing that is, it's a great place to start and people, um, I do encourage them to go check this out.

They can go to the Neuromeditation Institute's website, which is just neuromeditationinstitute. com. And they can take something called the Neuromeditation Style Inventory. Or the NMSI for short, and it's just a, you know, it's a very short series of questions. It'll, it'll just put a statement out there.

Like, um, I have, you know, a hard time focusing when I'm trying to read something, for instance, and it'll ask you to rate how true that statement is for you or not, and then it will ultimately give you some results and say, okay, these were your scores on the four different styles. of neuro meditation, and it'll give you some feedback about, um, based on this, this style or this style might be a good place for you to start.

So that's, that's one thing to do. You can also take a look. There's a, I've mentored quite a few people through the Institute and we have a certification program. And so there's a number of teachers and trainers and coaches. If you want to work one on one with somebody. There's also a free e course they can sign up for there, which would help them to learn a little more.

And there's some free sample meditations within each of the styles that they can check out and try. But ultimately, when I work with somebody in this approach longer term, I want to start by meeting them where they're at in terms of what's the need, what's the goal, and then gradually help them, if they're willing to, to learn enough about each of the four styles that they feel Competent and proficient in each and they know how to either just do the four styles themselves or where to access certain meditations, how to decide.

Oh, this is a meditation that might fall under that style or this style and then really get them to have over time. Just check in, check in with himself at the beginning of their practice each day. What is it that my nervous system is feeling today? Oh, you know, I'm feeling just so calm. scattered. I've really been having a hard time focusing lately.

Maybe I'll do a focus meditation or you know what, my dog just died and I am just really struggling right now with negative emotions. And I could really use an appreciation or a gratitude meditation or something within the open heart category to help me with these feelings of depression I'm struggling with.

So we also offer, you know, I have certain handouts and there's information on the website about how to kind of pair. You know, your goal or what you're experiencing, whether it's just regular humans, you know, or it's somebody who's actually struggling with a mental health concern. What's the style that might pair up with that?

Chris McDonald: So it sounds like it can be flexible. So even if you get a result on there, that doesn't mean you're stuck with that.

Stephanie Best: Wow. Very much. For the rest of your life. In fact, sometimes it's not the best approach to start with the one that's most indicated. So for instance, let's, let's think about depression. So if somebody is really high in ruminating, they're really ruminating on their negative thoughts.

And they're having a lot of, you know, criticism of themselves. They're really down on themselves. That inner critic is just being really vicious. And it just feels like a big leap to get to, let's say, a loving kindness meditation where you're, you know, offering, may I be happy? May I be well, you know, sending compassion to yourself, love and kindness.

It might feel like just an ocean away to do that. And, and you don't want to set them up for this experience where they try to do that. It just feels so inaccessible. And now that inner critic has more fuel, you know, for the fire where it's like, Oh, well, here's just another thing that I can't do. I'm no good at that, right?

So what we would do instead, for instance, might be, Hey, let's just. Let's start and meet them where they're at and just open up a little crack of possibility, a little bit of light. And so maybe I'll just teach them a very basic focus meditation and help them to land their, their focus on their breath for just a small amount of time and then gradually expand the amount of time they're able to do that.

And what we find is People who have really a lot of high rumination and depression, they respond well to that because it's giving them a little break. If they're focusing on their breath, they're not focusing on ruminating on the negative thoughts, right? Now, eventually I do want to guide them in the direction of an, uh, you know, an open heart kind of meditation, but at first it might be more accessible to them to do a focus.

And then even once I get to open heart, I'm probably not going to start with loving kindness. I'm going to start with something basic like appreciation, you know, let's start with looking at things that you could just even appreciate every day. Like, Oh, Hey, there were more green lights on the way to work than red.

I mean, just, just like basic things. And that's another reason I love this approach. The way we teach neuromeditation. Yes, there are certainly formal practices when you're sitting and meditating. But there are also lots of informal ways that you can nudge the brain in these directions throughout the day.

And so that was just one example of how you might do an informal, open, hard practice in your daily life.

Chris McDonald: Yes, I love the informal practices. I teach those to clients as well with a mindfulness. And I think that that's helpful because I think everybody thinks of meditation as I must sit down and be there for 60 minutes and cross legged, which Not everybody can even sit cross legged,

Stephanie Best: you know,

Chris McDonald: so it's just, I like that the, the informal too.

So I think that's really, that's more reachable for people.

Stephanie Best: Much more. And then actually what you're doing is you're building new neural connections and reshaping neural pathways all throughout the day. And really, I often think about it and honestly, a meditation practice doesn't even have to be sitting.

We can talk about focus meditations where you're kind of doing a standing meditation and actually using some Qigong movements, for instance, or even, you know, mindful yoga can be a form of meditation, you know, and it can absolutely shape the brain in very similar kinds of ways, as I'm sure, you know, so, you know, I think we really, you know, That's one of our main messages is however you think meditation should look or has to look no way.

Like there's a lot of different ways that it can look and don't let however you think it should look, you know, keep you away from, from meditating because I might start with someone and say, Hey, let's try setting a timer for, you know, three minutes to do a breath focus every day. One minute if their mind starts out very, very scattered and that's okay.

Or one minute of standing breath focus while you, you know, kind of raise the arms and lift the arms to the breath. And then we can gradually build on that. It doesn't have to be. I'm sitting on a cushion in lotus position for an hour. And when you're sitting or doing the formal practice, to me, That's kind of like you're in the dojo, you're in the gym, right?

But why do you go work out? You work out so that you can have energy for the rest of your life. So you can have flexibility or strength for the rest of your life. You're bringing, you're using what you're gaining from the workout session in the rest of your life. And so for me, all of life is my meditation practice.

And when I teach it to my clients, I I'm hoping that they will come away with that as well and know there's lots of ways to practice it formally each day, but also to be informally working your brain in these ways throughout the day.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. All of life is your meditation practice. It is. So listeners, that's something you can take away already from this episode.

I think

Stephanie Best: that's powerful though. Really? Oh, it's changed my life dramatically. How has it

Chris McDonald: changed your life?

Stephanie Best: Oh my gosh. I, you know, I often think that our nervous systems are like when you're sitting at a stoplight and back to stoplights, uh, theme for tonight and you're in a car. And the car has a certain idle and, you know, sometimes that idle is really low and you're wondering, oh, Jesus, it's going to sputter out, you know, and then sometimes the idle is really high and you're thinking, boy, if I don't keep my foot on the brake, it's going to take off.

I feel like each of us has a unique idol that our nervous system is set on and mine, uh, I do believe came out of the womb on a high idle and I am about to turn 50 this summer. I've lived with this nervous system for 5 decades. It's pretty, pretty sure it's a high idle nervous system. And you know, this is one of the reasons why I'm passionate about a mind body perspective because looking at my own life, I look around at my family.

There was, there's a lot of anxiety, some depression. So I likely inherited some kind of genetic predisposition. And then this high idle nervous system gets born into the world. And when I was first born, one of my lungs didn't inflate properly. And so I had to be in the neonatal intensive care unit for two weeks.

And, you know, the brain, the CEO of our nervous system did what, what a good CEO of the nervous system would do. It said, uh huh. Yep. See, we were already twitchy and we thought we weren't sure about this place. And look at that. We nearly died in the first two weeks. And so I think the stress response system, you know, the, the parts of our nervous system that are designed to detect stress and protect us from danger.

I think that got really highly sensitized and, you know, I, I grew up in, you know, A loving and well meaning, but not psychologically minded, blue collar Irish Catholic family. And, uh, it was just sort of, you know, you know, that's Stephanie, she's a worrier. But I, I learned to control, I thought, my anxiety in ways like over, overworking, you know, at school, trying to get straight A's, you know, people pleasing, pats on the head, you know, organizing socks in my sock drawer at four years old, which is not a normal sort of thing, but.

It went for such a long time unchecked, and then it morphed into depression when I was a teenager, because it's very depressing to be anxious like that every single day. And that inner critic was just ramping up until I was barreling toward this aforementioned quarter life crisis, where thankfully I finally got introduced to meditation and therapy and ultimately put me on a path that was going to change my life.

But when I finally got the knack of Really meditating regularly and I'm just for me understanding the science of it in this way, understanding how it impacts my brain, what I needed. I mean, when I first started it, all I did were mindfulness meditations for 2 years because that is honestly the best pairing for stress and anxiety and I can feel, I mean, I've been a daily meditator for so many years now.

I absolutely can feel that it has reshaped my brain and my nervous system. I am so much less reactive. It's like living a different life. I mean, I, I'm aware of anxious thoughts and feelings and sensations, and they are just a part of the weather for the day. And they, I don't get hooked by them anywhere near as often.

And when I do get hooked by them, I'm so much quicker to notice that because of my practice and be able to return it. fully to the present moment and figure out what matters to me and take action on that. So my life has become so much more about moving toward what's important and what I yearn for than about trying not to feel bad, which is what so much of it was about before I became a meditator and before I learned acceptance and commitment therapy.

And there's just so much overlap between these.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So I'm learning more about act as I'm integrating yoga with act and some of the yoga basics course I'm teaching, which is really exciting. That's some beautiful stuff about acting

Stephanie Best: yoga. Yes.

Chris McDonald: So tell me how this, how does this. Does ACT interact with neuro meditation?

How does that work?

Stephanie Best: So ACT really teaches what they call psychological flexibility skills. And that's also something that a regular meditation practice, especially if you learn and kind of master all four of these styles, you're going to have a lot of psychological flexibility. Well, what does that mean?

It's the opposite of rigid thinking. You know, so it is your ability to Take meaningful action in your life toward what matters to you, even and especially in the presence of uncomfortable thoughts. feelings and sensations. So whatever's going to show up inside of you is going to show up, but there is this ability to just sort of, um, notice it and embrace it all in this mindful, nonjudgmental way.

Hey, this is all part of the human experience. You know, I can have this. It doesn't have to be something, I know my mind, I notice that my mind is labeling this stuff as bad, but it's, uh, it's actually not, it's just a part of the human experience, and in fact, if I'm feeling nervous about something, it might mean that I'm moving towards something that's really important to me, and that's great, you know, so can I, can I accept the full range of what it means to be human, all of it, And learn to ground and center myself in the present and commit to taking action.

That's going to make my life better. That's going to be in line with my values. That's going to help me to become the person I most want to be. And so all of those psychological flexibility skills, learning to notice the thoughts and feelings that show up. Unhook from them come back to the present connect with what matters in your heart and commit to taking action in that direction meditation absolutely fosters all of those skills as well and so when you're practicing psychological flexibility through act or through meditation.

Your brain doesn't get stuck into these old habits that's like, Nope, we have to do it this way. There's a broad repertoire. And when you have a broad repertoire of responses, and you are less reactive to your thoughts and your feelings, you can let the greatest teacher of all time, your direct experience, teach you about what works.

And what doesn't work? And over time it becomes easier and easier to choose to do what works, whether or not distressing thoughts and feelings are around.

Chris McDonald: That makes so much sense. I feel like ACT is so, it's so life theory for everyone, isn't it? Life lessons. Oh my gosh. And we can all take, take this for creating a better life for ourselves and our clients.

Stephanie Best: I wish, I mean, my dream is that I, we one day live in a world where psychological flexibility skills are taught in elementary and middle school as well as meditation. I think that the world that we live in, well, I think the headlines would be a lot less scary. Stephanie for president.

But I will support those endeavors because yeah, that's the thing. We don't pop out of the womb learning these. We don't know how to do these skills. We don't come out learning these things. In fact, and here's one thing that act teaches us the default mode for the mind is that it is going to try to control uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, right?

It's like, it makes sense. If you think about it, like, ouch, this feeling is painful. Okay. Let me fix it. Let me control it. And unfortunately for us, really control in the world outside the skin and the physical world control works really, really well out here. I mean, you are. A master of control from the moment you wake up in the morning before you have even gotten into your first appointment or gotten to work.

You are controlling your world and to such a degree that you don't even, we all take it for granted. So from the moment that you wake up on this highly engineered mattress. And maybe it's a sleep number bed and maybe your spouse has, you know, a different temperature or sleep number. But there you guys are on your separate sides of the bed.

And then you walk into your home, which is by the way, set at a temperature That you set on your thermostat. So, you know, if it's 70 degrees, it is never going to veer from 70 degrees, even if it's like 90 degrees in Charleston, as it is right now. And then you plot over to your Keurig and you put this little pod in there and you hit a couple of buttons.

And then there's this group, you know, wonderful cup of coffee. And let's say you forget that you had your coffee over there and, Oh, nevermind. I got distracted. I'll just throw this in this thing called a microwave and hit a couple more buttons. And then it'll be hot again. We are controlling problems all the time, really, really well in the external world.

I know we create a lot of problems as well, but we really are controlling. So you know, the mind, its job is to notice all this stuff. And so it has decided, oh, control works, right? And also we are very crafty and we can come up with pretty good short term control strategies for our thoughts and our feelings, right?

So everybody who's listening to this right now, if I asked them. What are some ways that you've managed to, at least in the short term, control your anxiety when you felt it? People could, people can give you lots of different examples. You know, I mean, some of it is, well, I just avoid the situation. I do scroll on my phone.

I binge watch Netflix. I, I drink alcohol. I go to sleep. I restrict food. I over eat food. I go to sleep. I people please. I overwork. You know, I mean, there's, there's lots of ways we have been able to in the short term control our thoughts and feelings. But what happens is, and I think everybody really can, if they look at their own experience, it'll show them.

The more you try to control thoughts and feelings you don't want in the long term, the more you get of them. But unfortunately, the brain has noticed these short term effects and it combines that with noticing how well control works in the physical world. And it just suggests more control strategies when we have uncomfortable thoughts and feelings.

And it doesn't really care so much about the long term effect because, well, every, you know, mostly it's a lot of therapists and people in that world listen to your podcast. Right? So everybody knows like, right. Learning 101. This is not just human learning. This is animal learning 101. If you have a dog and you want to train the dog to sit, why don't you tell the dog to sit, watch it sit, and then come back an hour later or go find the dog and say, Hey buddy, remember an hour ago when you sat?

Like that was so great. Yay. Here's a treat. I love you. You don't do that because it doesn't, it doesn't work. It's not the long term consequence. It's the immediate effect that gets noticed by the brain and how we learn. And so when we use these short term control strategies for our thoughts and feelings, the brain catalogs that it has cataloged every control strategy you've ever made that has worked even temporarily to control a thought or feeling you didn't want.

And it has again concluded control strategies work. And so it just suggests more control strategies. So from the time we're born, this is what our minds will tell us to do. As long as we're aware of that. And it's like, there's nothing wrong with you for, for having tried these things. You know, you're just looking for some relief.

You're trying to soothe yourself the best way that you know how. And guess what? Our parents didn't learn these psychological flexibility skills either. So they didn't get modeled for us or taught for us. But the beauty is. At the end of this long winded rant, well being is a skill that absolutely can be taught and honed over time.

And really, that's why I think everybody could benefit from, from learning psychological flexibility skills and using meditation as mental training to really strengthen them.

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Elevate your wellbeing and become a more mindful counselor today. Check it out at hcpodcast. org forward slash workbook. That's hcpodcast. org forward slash workbook today. So what does research say about the benefits of neuromeditation?

Stephanie Best: So the easiest way to look at it is to sort of look into the research on how each of the styles impact various things.

And so there is a good amount of evidence, for instance, that focus meditations do increase focus and things like selective attention. So your ability to pay attention to one thing, but not attend to other things that really aren't relevant to what you're trying to focus on. There's a fair amount of research that indicates that if you practice open heart styles of meditation over time.

Gratitude in particular. There's a ton of research on gratitude practices for not just mental and emotional health, but physical health, but appreciation, gratitude, loving kindness, how that can have really lead to significant reductions in depression over time in terms of mindfulness. Lots of evidence on mindfulness and the impact on anxiety.

And that includes with yoga. Actually, there's a really fantastic, you probably know them, uh, lab at, uh, Yale. I think she's at Yale or Sarah Lazar. Oh, she might be at Harvard actually. She's at one of those two big, big places. And she studied, she and her lab study the impact just of meditation and yoga. And there's a lot of similar kinds of impacts that they have in terms of your neurological system.

So there's great impacts of reducing stress and anxiety in mindfulness. And then for The open heart style, which is kind of more like what people think of stereotypically as meditation, sort of like a quiet mind kind of a thing, or sorry, not the open heart, a quiet mind style. Forgive me. I misspoke there.

Most people think when you sit down to meditate, your mind is going to get quiet, or that's the goal of meditating. Hopefully people have heard, you know, I really haven't even talked about a style like that yet. You know, so that's one of these common misconceptions that, oh, I can't meditate because I can't clear my mind.

Well, none of the things I've talked about doing so far have involved quieting the mind. That's not the default state of the mind. And it's really not even a problem necessarily, but the quiet mind type of meditation. And in that there's things like. Zen meditation, some open awareness, you know, can, can actually foster that as well.

Transcendental meditation is in the quiet mind category. And, and that does involve sort of trying to open up more pockets of quietness or space. You know, there's never going to be a time where it's just going to be space. That's, that's not how human minds are, are, that's just not how we are wired, but we can learn.

To sort of open up these pockets and sort of drop down below the level of thought for longer and longer periods. But even that, it's going to vary from, from day to day, but they have found that quiet mind styles not only can reduce stress and anxiety, but they can really help with disorders where someone is really rigidly stuck to a particular conceptualization of themselves or with addictive patterns like eating disorders, substance abuse, OCD, personality, issues, those can really benefit from quiet mind as well.

Chris McDonald: So is this meditation accessible to everyone or is there contraindications for certain people?

Stephanie Best: I really want to stress that we need to, anytime you're approaching meditation, it has to be trauma informed. It really needs to be trauma informed. There are, for instance, there's a lot of people that have been through traumatic things where the idea of simply closing their eyes.

And going inside and being with whatever shows up is not necessarily it's not accessible and it might be in fact harmful depending on the stage that they're at. So, uh, 1 of the things I love about the folks at the neuro meditation Institute is we all learn how to approach this in a trauma informed way.

And so I would say if, if this, if you're someone who has a history of trauma, where you're still feeling fairly easily triggered, it's very difficult for you to close your eyes and be inside with whatever is showing up, consider working with a coach or a trainer who is trauma informed at first, or at the very least, if you're using any of these.

apps that are out there. Make sure you're searching for or looking for trauma informed style, but I would really rather they be doing this with either a counselor or a meditation coach or therapist or someone from the Neuromeditation Institute, just until they kind of learn the grounding tools and skills to be able to keep themselves safe, create a safety container, know that they can.

Always opt out. You know, when I'm working with someone with, with trauma, we'll do a lot of eyes open stuff at first, and I will empower them to say, you know, we're going to go slow. You can come out of this at any time. You can let me know. I'll be periodically checking in with you. But for instance, a mindfulness style isn't always the best, or a body scan for someone who's been through sexual assault, you know, a body scan can be highly triggering.

And so we, this is one of the points is that, uh, why do we have offer this individual coaching? It's because. Each person is going to really need a different sort of thing to really do a full assessment and meet them where they're at. That's going to be unique to each human who comes to the practice.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. I found a lot of clients that are, that have been through a lot of trauma, complex trauma. They struggle with meditation. They come to me, they're like, something's wrong with me. I can't meditate. I'm like, well, let's put meditation on hold for a little while. But I think you're right. You're onto something too.

Can we get the nervous system more grounded? Can we get more present moment focus? But then I think you also mentioned flexibility too. body scans may not work. I've had people. Can you just notice your fingers? Let's pick one body part. You know, can we break it down to it? Like you said, what the individual needs to, yes, there's like a buffet

Stephanie Best: of options.

There's so many ways to do this. You know, it can look lots of different ways and it can look just like you need it to look at this stage and how you need it to look at this stage might differ very much from how you need it to look a year 10 years down the road, you know, um, and that's the other reason I love this approach.

Chris McDonald: Well, it sounds like you try to make it accessible too and not like putting someone in here loving kindness, even though they're having all these difficult negative thoughts about themselves. So really trying to meet them where they're at, but, and, and starting with, like you said, just, can you do this for one minute and then building up?

I think that's so important.

Stephanie Best: Yeah, there's pretty good evidence that, you know, three minutes, for instance, done consistently over time. really confer significant benefits. And I always say to people at the beginning, it's not about racking up lots of minutes of meditation at the beginning. It's really just about establishing a consistent habit.

And that can look like one minute sitting down and doing 60 seconds of just noticing your breath, for instance, and noticing when your mind is carrying you off and bringing it back. But really doing that consistently daily and then gradually realizing, Oh, I can, I can do more. I can do two minutes now. I can do three minutes.

Now we've got something that we can really build on. And already you're starting to use your neurons in a different way. You're starting to really work the pathways that are responsible for noticing distressing thoughts and unhook from them, for example. And I love that, you know, the esteemed neuroscientist, Ritchie Davidson talks about meditation as, you know, every time that you notice a a thought trying to take you off into a land of stress and you bring it back to the present.

That's like a mental bicep curl. Yeah. So if you sit down and you do a minute a day, you're taking your mind to the gym, you're doing mental bicep. You are going to build on that. And I think, you know, you hear me talk about meditation as mental training a lot because I think sometimes people, they don't stick with the practice because it, they haven't been given reasonable expectations.

You know, it's not a quick fix. It is a journey similar to yoga, right? Hopefully it's going to be a journey over a long period of time and it's going to evolve and grow and it's going to change. And there's not a goal of a place where you're going to get to be at. It's more, the practice is the joy in and of itself.

And you know, can you commit to this mental training because what we know is it has tremendous benefits in terms of building your awareness, your insight into yourself, your patterns, your reactions, your ability to find purpose and meaning in your life and your ability to connect with yourself and others.

And those, I mean, what could be more important than those things, but we need to look at it. Like how many times have you heard somebody say, Oh, I tried meditating once or twice. It really wasn't for me. That would be kind of like saying, well, my goal was really to get And I went to the gym once or twice, but it really didn't work.

So I don't think that's for me. It's like, well, I think we need to, to be realistic about it. It is it's mental training. It does take a commitment. It will pay off in dividends. If you know, you commit to doing it at the beginning. And that's part of what we can sort of put training wheels on these practices and give people tips and tools to make it more palatable to them so that they might stay in shape.

stick with it. And then over time, hopefully I hope for everybody that as it is for me, it becomes a real sanctuary. It becomes something that you want to do. No one's taking my daily practice away from me. That is my time. And in this world where we're all so busy and our to do lists are ridiculous and we're conflating our worth with our productivity, the act of sitting and just being rather than doing.

It's like a radical planting of a flag that we really need a whole lot more of in our society. And it's, it's a beautiful thing. And I look forward to it every day. It, it took a while to get to that point. I'm not going to lie. It was hard at first, but like I said, there are things that we can do to make it easier.

And when you do work with a coach, even periodically at the beginning, I think that can help a lot.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And I appreciate all that too, because I think that's the biggest part. And I know for me, when my practice, I was doing it inconsistently and I didn't have all the apps and resources when I started either.

I had a book. So I had to learn from a book and try to practice in my own body and just know I didn't have anyone to talk to. I was on my own. I was like, okay, let me give this a go. But once I found a community and that helped me get started and to get consistent, I think that's the hardest part for clients too.

Cause you know, I talked to clients about meditation, but for them to move from. I know what it is. I've tried some practices. How do I get this consistent? So is that something that you talk to clients about as well?

Stephanie Best: Yes, definitely. And I'm glad you mentioned community because I think that also can for some people really be a great thing to do.

I every Sunday I have a locals Zen meditation Sangha and we meet and we meditate and then we go have coffee and fellowship afterward. And yeah, I've been doing that for several years and it's really, it's a great space to be able to just. talk about practice, know that you're in community. I mean, a lot of the great ancient teachers spoke often about the importance of community.

It's not necessarily something that everybody wants to do, but especially if you're looking to stick to a practice and know that, oh gosh, is this weird? Is this just me? Having a community or a sangha to talk to about those things can be really comforting and, and help make the practice more enjoyable. I find.

Chris McDonald: Absolutely. So what's the takeaway for therapists or counselors who are listening, who may want to start with some meditation with clients, but aren't sure where to go with it.

Stephanie Best: So I really suggest, as I said, going to the Neuromeditation Institute's website, neuromeditationinstitute. com. If you're a therapist and start by looking at it for yourself, you know, take the neuromeditation style inventory, just so you know what that's about.

But. If you're curious, see what, what it shows up for you in terms of your scores. Maybe dabble in some of the free sample meditations within each of the four styles on there. And, um, if you're really interested, sign up for the free e course and, and check that out. There is a path, uh, there's level one, level two, and level three certification, if people want to learn how to teach this stuff.

Each level is more and more involved, but you, if you really just want to teach it with clients level one, uh, there's self paced ways that they can go through it. They could also do live. classes through the Institute if they want. That's so that's one path. But I really, I absolutely adore Richie Davidson's groups app.

So for those who don't know, Richard Davidson is probably, arguably the world's most renowned neuroscientists at this place where they're studying the intersection of neuroscience and meditation and really trying to look at it through a science based lens and to promote well being for all humans and really.

They look at it as kind of a public health concern and, and, and, and a potential really impactful public health tool. So the center for healthy minds at the university of Wisconsin, Madison, which is where Richie Davidson and his group are, they have developed honestly, the most beautiful science backed.

Just palatable, wonderful app that I have ever come across. And I mean, I was one of the earliest adopters of calm headspace. I've been looking at every app for so long and I've used them all with clients. I've used them on my own. I've never come across anything that is as beautifully constructed as the healthy minds app.

It's 100 percent free, which is amazing to me. They must have just a crackerjack fundraiser there because so well done. And what they do is they alternate. Practices. And by the way, you can choose a sitting practice or an active practice. So talking about how, Oh, what if I can't quite sit yet and close my eyes, you can choose an active practice and there is an actual course start here and go through the course and it will take you through an introductory module and then it will take you through modules on awareness.

insight, connection, and purpose. And it actually will teach you something about all of these four styles of meditation, even though it isn't going to be talking about neuromeditation, it's highly consistent with it because it's based on the same body of scientific literature and research. And what it also does is it intersperses the practices with these little podcasty learn.

Episodes that are three to eight minutes long are so well done, and it has, you know, experts from the world of meditation and people like Richie Davidson coming and talking in a very relatable way. Like, how does this relate to me, average human, and how can I use this in the rest of my life outside of my practice?

And why should I care about this? And what's it doing to my brain? And it's, I, I actually have every single client who comes to me for therapy, uh, goes through this in the background and just about everybody loves it and finds it's not at all what they thought meditation was. Well,

Chris McDonald: we could have that in the show notes as well as the neuro meditation and stuff.

So, can I just ask real quick with a level one training, like if therapist wrenches, how long is that training?

Stephanie Best: Uh, you know, I, I actually have to look at that. I was just curious about that. I'm not entirely sure. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: So what's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you?

Stephanie Best: So if they wanted to work with me either to do some neuromeditation coaching or in individual therapy, I, my particular passion is helping high achieving women with anxiety who are interested in working from a mind body perspective.

Gee, I don't know why that's my passion, but I really do love and using experience. and meditation as mental training, then they can find out more about me on dr. Stephanie best. com, which is D R the abbreviation S T E P H a N I E B as in boy E S T. com. And there is also a form to fill out on the website for a free initial phone consultation.

I am pretty full for therapy at the moment, but I actually have a couple of slots available and I'm a PSYPACT psychologist. So I'm in this interstate compact that psychologists can join that allows me to practice telehealth across state lines. And so I can work with anybody in currently 40 United States, which is pretty cool.

I love that. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: That's amazing. Okay. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Stephanie.

Stephanie Best: I really appreciate the opportunity. It's a delight. As you can tell, it's, uh, it's fun for me to talk about acts or meditation and especially with someone who loves these things too.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. And thank you listeners for being here.

Are you ready to take your journey as a holistic therapist to the next level? I'd like to personally invite you to be part of our growing community of like minded individuals who share a passion for holistic therapy and the importance of investing in self care. Come on over and join my Facebook group, the Holistic Counseling and Self Care Group, a welcoming space to connect with other fellow holistic therapists, ask questions, share experiences, and exchange ideas.

Don't miss out and join us at hcpodcast. org forward slash holistic group. That's hcpodcast. org forward slash holistic group. holistic group. And this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light and love. Till next time. Take care. Thanks for listening. The information in this podcast is for general educational purposes only, and it is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are giving legal financial counseling or any other kind of professional advice.

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We'll navigate this journey together through solo episodes, as well as special guests. Discover your inner strength, resilience, and hope. As we explore topics like self care, building healthy relationship, cognitive behavioral therapy, and overcoming challenges. You'll come away with a renewed sense of self and the tools to create a life Filled with fulfillment and well being.

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