Episode 185 Breaking Free From A Religious Upbringing & Embracing Spirituality & Your Intuitive Gifts: Interview With Samantha Bell-Walker

Chris McDonald: Have you struggled to navigate a religious upbringing and are unsure how to embrace your spiritual and intuitive gifts? In today's episode, we go deep on how one clinician was able to break free from the restraints and judgments of religious upbringing to embrace her spiritual and intuitive gifts.

For many, the journey towards spiritual liberation is a profound one, marked by courage, introspection, and finding one's own individual healing path. Join us as we navigate the complexities of spiritual awakening, offering insights, tools, and inspiration to empower you on your own spiritual journey. So buckle up, you are in for a fun ride with this one.

On today's episode,

This is Holistic Counseling, the podcast for mental health therapists who want to deepen their knowledge of holistic modalities and build their practice with confidence. I'm your host, Chris McDonald, licensed therapist. I am so glad you're here for the journey.

Welcome back. Today we're diving into a deeply personal journey, breaking free from the constraints of religious upbringing to embrace spirituality and honor our intuitive gifts. So growing up with a religious framework can provide structure and moral guidance, but for many, It can also impose limitations, suppress exploration of individual spirituality and gifts.

So in this episode, we'll explore the journey of liberation, navigating the complexities of spirituality and embracing, learning to embrace, our innate intuitive abilities. Joining us, To talk about this is Samantha Bell Walker. She's an intuitive healer, psychotherapist, and coach. Her sessions focus on creating a sacred space for individuals to be themselves, holistically, spiritually, and mentally.

She invites spirit into sessions for clients to be able. To release things that no longer serve them. Welcome to the Holistic Counseling Podcast, Samantha. Hey, how are you? Good. I'm glad you're here. And it was so fun that you came out to a holistic happy hour too.

Samantha Bell-Walker: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

Chris McDonald: So I was wondering if you could start today with sharing, when did you first notice your intuitive guests?

Were you a child or an adult? How did this come about?

Samantha Bell-Walker: I would say I can recall around like four or five and it mostly would happen after attending certain funerals. I was very hypersensitive to attending funerals. And I noticed that after certain funerals, I would get kind of visited by spirits. And.

They would just kind of hang out, talk a little bit and I just wouldn't say anything, but I also wasn't fearful, but the anxiousness was knowing every time I attended funerals that it would happen was, uh, was kind of took me aback because I think I learned, I learned to normalize it, but I also tried to, to fight going to certain funerals as I got older.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So you knew that was going to happen. So tell me about your background and your journey with religion. And this had to go up against that in some ways, huh?

Samantha Bell-Walker: It did. It did. Because I'm very much raised Southern Baptist. And that, religious doctrine kind of somewhat encourages is individuals with those gifts, you know, are only meant for like preachers or prophets or someone connected that way.

So at first it was a lot for me to even share my gifts and everything with other people. And that, you know, even as I was young, because it was something that was kind of taboo and knowing that I wasn't a person that was. Of a higher position in the church, it was still a lot of conflict within and just accepting it.

And then there was also a history of some mental health in the family. So me kind of somewhat knowing, okay, these things might not supposed to be there. Am I really seeing this? What is wrong? And I think that's where the disconnect happened because when I finally did share the gifts, I was made, uh, to think that, you know, I was, told that I was crazy.

There was nothing there. I was just imagining things. And what happened is when I was a little bit older, one that came to visit me was a little bit scary. And I kind of made note of it, screaming, yelling, they came in, cut the light on. And then I just kind of told them what happened. And then it was like, you didn't see anything.

And like, it was just a bad dream. You're crazy. Like, cause I shared it with different people. And after doing all of that, like it literally, you know, dealing with all that internal conflict. It just shut the gifts down

Chris McDonald: for years. I was gonna say that. I could see how you share and then you're, you know, no, no, that's not real.

You're, what you're seeing is not real. It just would lead you to shut down. I wonder your nervous system too being like, nope, we're not even gonna open up about that,

Samantha Bell-Walker: right? Exactly. But especially with the, like I said, the family history of mental health. So my mom at the time, um, I think had just got, Recently diagnosed, you know, with like, uh, some psychotic features.

So hearing that, and I'm like, Oh yeah. Then I was like, it is a whole layer, but I'm like, you all are not getting ready to talk about me, you know, the same way that I've heard you talk about her. And then I think for me, it was even more internal conflict and resistance, because then I'm thinking, okay, is this me?

Am I having these same symptoms? And I'm like, I know I didn't imagine it. Like what is really going on? And I think from there that kind of just, they put everything on pause and what continued to happen throughout the years is I did, I would still have the gift of dreams. you know, once in a while. And I think those were more accepting when I would share them with people.

I was never able to see and hear the way I was as a child after all of that happened. I just pictured like putting a part of yourself away in a box and

Chris McDonald: putting it in a dresser.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Locked with like a chastity

Chris McDonald: belt.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Oh, my goodness.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. Throwing in the ocean all the good stuff.

Samantha Bell-Walker: That had to be so hard. It was a lot.

It was a lot as a child. Just kind of hearing that and then shutting it down and then kind of like really, like I said, still growing up very Southern Baptist, attending church two to three days a week. You know, long hours each time attending. So I think it was just like hearing those things and then made to be like, okay, not only is it maybe so, you know, there was some mental, you know, me internalizing it, you know, also hearing like, well, this isn't really per se of God, or there was some kind of disconnect there.

So me kind of struggling with both aspects of that too.

Chris McDonald: Yeah.

And I started going to like, you know, personal therapy to kind of sort some of those things out. And also around that time, I was connected. For some reason, I started getting a lot of spiritual friends, spiritual, not religious, just to kind of, you know, segregate the two. And I was just hearing different things and I was like, okay, there's something to this whole, I was drawn to the holistic perspective of things, but I was still kind of resistant.

Isn't enough, you know, growing up, you know, seeing, Southern Baptist. And I was like, well, you know, I'm told not to believe in these things. I'm told that these things are not, you know, of God. And okay. What am I supposed to do? If I feel drawn to them, I feel drawn to the crystals. I feel drawn to trial Reiki.

And then finally I just kind of wanted to know more and I just kept digging and digging and I became a regular in like doing Reiki, doing crystals. I started in my You know, personal practice corporate, even some like adaptogens and other herbs to kind of, you know, tell people about it from the holistic avenue, but not really digging too deep.

Quote by Samantha. That's when I was like, oh, here we go, like,

Chris McDonald: oh, for you. It did. It did. Uh, it was a rollercoaster. energy has shifted already in this interview as we move towards. Yes, it

Samantha Bell-Walker: has.

Chris McDonald: I mean, I love it so much.

Samantha Bell-Walker: It shook my world up. I'll put it like that. Yeah. But it shook it up in a good way. And I can't help but always reference, you know, even as I'm working with clients myself, literally the quote that I've used to explain it, like, When the student's ready, the teacher will appear, right?

And usually what will be explained to me is that might be a person they always have a conflict with, or that would be, you know, a warning for some people, you know, when, when the name would come up, cause they, I might mention the name and then a few days later they'd be like, Oh, guess what happened with such and such that you said, or this person.

And then for some people, it might've been like a loved one. So I was like, Oh, here we go. I was like, this is, it's happening again. Then I took level two and it was, yeah, level two was different. And when I took level two training, that's when the abilities to see and hear came back, like full force.

Chris McDonald: Wow. So that, I always find that so interesting.

Now I'm not on Akashic record reader, but I get those. So if something is connected to what they're struggling with, I will be able to see The past life instance that's connected to it, if that makes sense.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I love how it's like gradually came back and you can get into this path.

Cause I feel like it's so, I feel like a sadness though, that you had to put that part of yourself away for so long. And just, I don't know if there was even residual grief for you with that.

Samantha Bell-Walker: You know, I think that's been, you know, some of the struggle is really working past those core beliefs, you know, around that time with the upbringing, you know, in the church and in that religious aspect is still very much like taboo or somewhat frowned upon.

You know, I had to really work on that, not just individually, but I, I also had got like a coach and a mentor. Um, I got like two or three. For different purposes, cause I had to figure some stuff out and it was just trying to trying to get other individuals who have kind of embraced that part and on that part to kind of pour into me because I think I've struggled with like actually acceptance, the gifts on and the gifts, knowing what they are, how to use them with other people, with guidance and kind of, you know, I'm very empathetic.

So I tried to, I have an issue with trying to solve the problem, but learning when it comes to spiritual gifts, you can't solve, you can't jump in it. You know, that's not therapy. You just can share the information. It's up to them to do the work. So having to bridge that gap. So sharing the information.

Yeah. Just share. And they have to do the work, you know, sometimes I do incorporate like regular coping skills or tips they could do if they are struggling. But I think a lot of it too is just breaking away from 75 percent of what the church has taught me that I need to fall in line. And, you know, and not to say that I don't.

Have a belief, you know, in a higher power because I still identify with some of those things, but I've learned to accept that I can use what I'm given and not be tied to one specific doctrine. That just runs everything. And I think a lot of people struggle with that because some of that upbringing is just like, no, like some of this is evil or you're not supposed to have this gift unless it's used for this and this and this.

And honestly, churches are very structured around. They're very political. I'll put it like that. They're very political. And I think I had to break away from not only those core beliefs, those morals, those values, those political aspects to just embrace who I am. But I'll easily tell you, like, my friends can be like, I was the friend who would sit and we were going to have grace before we ate.

Like I was very abrasive with everything surrounding like religion. Like I put Pushed it on the people. I forced it on the people. Like I hit you with the Bible verse. Really? Yes. It was just very, really, yeah. But I still had my little edge to me. Now I'm, yeah, of course I would still me , but when it came to other stuff, I would just go very hard.

So I had to, you know, I had to break away from that. And I also learned like, okay, you could find spirit in everything. It doesn't have to be in one place. It doesn't have to be connected to one doctrine because it's everywhere. And learning how to embrace that. Yes. Yes. And learning how to embrace that from that level has truly been a release.

And I think so many people don't have that opportunity to tap into what that release is, how that feels. Breaking free from those core beliefs, breaking free from something that's structured as organized religion. And it's happening to like, you can be spiritual without being religious. Like you still pray.

You can still meditate. What's the difference?

Chris McDonald: Can we talk about that? I want to show it.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Ooh, we're getting there. Yeah. The difference to me is with spirit combines is very eclectic. I will put it like that. Spiritual things, spirit is very eclectic. You can still, you know, believe in God and have that belief, but you also accept that it may be God showing up.

In different ways by a different name for different people, you know, being aware of that, also looking at, like, you don't have to specifically just be, you know, a certain religion where you wear like the skirts and you carry yourself for a certain way. You can truly be yourself without having to subscribe to the policies and procedures of what.

the Bible, you know, somewhat has taught you to do, but also not just the Bible teaching you to do, but also how that specific doctrine that you've been embedded in has taught you because the two combine because they'll give you the word that comes from the Bible. Then they'll also give you, well, this is how we need to do it.

This is how it should be. This is what it says. So also accepting that interpretation is left up to the reader without you really feeling like it has to be left up to whatever. other people kind of leading you to do and finding your own way to feel connected to spirit. Not even because for some people spirit might not be God.

Spirit might be things around them. It might be the universe, but embracing whatever that means for you individually and then using your practices. day to day to be connected to something greater than yourself, whether that is prayer, manifesting, you know, fasting, whatever your, your kind of spiritual practice is.

You're speaking my language.

Chris McDonald: I know. I know. Don't you just love it? Don't you just love it? I went to Catholic school for four years when I was a child, um, not a good experience even then as a child, but from what I've learned too, is like coming into my own with spirituality is finding it all around me.

What you said, I really connect with that because I feel like the church didn't want you to see it and everything they had to be at church. And that was like for them, it's like, Oh, they're going to move away from the church if they do that. But it's like, you could have both too, if you really wanted.

Right. You can still find it and everything, but find you, I love how you said individually too, because for me, it's an individual experience. What works for me may not work for you. And that's okay though. We have different paths.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Exactly. And I think that's the part I've had to accept because I still, you know, have those connections with, you You know, family members or, you know, church individuals, but I'm like, it's just not for me.

That doesn't mean I'm over here, like doing something evil when I'm giving energy healing sessions or, you know, tapping into those messages that I get from. So I think it's like, I've accepted that now, whether they that's on them, but I've had to learn. Yeah, it was an adjustment at first. And I think that was some of the fears too with embracing my gifts and embracing myself.

Because I had to learn, I can still have those relationships and just not have the same beliefs. That's kind of what I had to learn to accept. So I really had to work on knowing that my purpose for being here is to be a healer and it's not to be a healer just from the psychological standpoint, which is what I had learned to digest, you know, because.

The two couldn't overlap like being spiritual and that, but in reality, I can be a healer from all angles, right? I can be an energy healer. I can be a sound healer. I can be a spiritual healer. I can also take that hat off. And they'd be a therapist when I need to. So I think it was accepted all, literally all parts of me.

Chris McDonald: I just had this, this word that came up, preach.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's so, it's just so funny though, that we have so much in common. I think a lot of listeners can relate to this too, that many have been on that journey. And that's why we talk a lot on this podcast about coming out of the the closet, right? Because it is, it's a whole process. And like you said, it takes a lot of inner work to work through.

And I know some people too have the religious trauma piece as well, which can make it even more difficult and turn people away from religion altogether. But it sounds like you've really tried to figure out a way to make it your own and, and still have a core belief in a higher power, maybe.

Samantha Bell-Walker: I have, and I've learned to accept that it's okay to do that.

Cause I think that was my biggest thing. Yeah. And I had to learn to accept the gifts too, because a part of me felt like, okay, why do I have this gift if I'm not connected to the church? You know, even as they came all back, like those same negative core beliefs kind of just flooded. And I was like, no, God has given me these gifts.

I've had them before. It's not my fault that people that weren't aware or had the self awareness kind of steered me away from it. But now that I'm here, it's back, it's like, all right, it's time to get the movement. It's time to share those gifts as a healer. It's time to heal people from different layers, not just, you know, from that specific place.

Like it's, I have to tap into the physical, the mental, the emotional, not just from the other parts that I think I would just. be looking at from the therapist standpoint, it's okay to have those spiritual conversations. It's okay to talk about some of those things within sessions to, to make sure they, and not just from an AA, NA perspective.

Cause I think that's a lot of what I first jumped into as a therapist with substance abuse, but not just from that, like we need to have deeper, like, what is your purpose? for being here? What is your passion? How can we make the two of those blend? If you're a spiritual person, you need to start doing it instead of sitting on it.

So just a lot of those different things, I think I had to learn to say to myself, and now I can help, you know, pass it on.

Chris McDonald: Yeah, exactly. To guide others through that journey. But I think purpose is so important. I always ask clients that too, because that guides so much. And if people feel lost and unsure, which is fine, you don't always know what your purpose is, but if you can have those conversations that get deeper, I think that can be really helpful and powerful.

Samantha Bell-Walker: It is. And then it also kind of is self provoking because it makes them accept themselves. Cause I've seen that light and I've seen some of that like awakening per se. In individuals, when we have those conversations and then to see it blossom and to see it foster and then kind of start pouring more into themselves.

I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah.

Chris McDonald: Cause if you tie it back to, to even counseling theory, if we're going to go there with like values and act theory, right. So that could be tied into values. And I think some people are like, Oh, wait a second. I do have a purpose. I'm a parent or, you know, my career is important to me, whatever it might be is tied to their values, which.

you know, that might be a little more reinforcing for them to feel like they have a place in their life and they really want to work on that and making that

Samantha Bell-Walker: a priority. Exactly. Exactly. And it is, it's a powerful thing to just having people own it. That's the best way to describe it. Like having them own it on themselves, on where they're at in their journey, not saying that you got to be like here tomorrow, but just having them own it and embrace it on the journey.

Exactly. Exactly.

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What kind of judgments did you come against when all this transitioning was happening?

Samantha Bell-Walker: I think there, you know, it's, it's been a lot, but I think the biggest judgment I think was figuring out who stood for me and who was against me. Because there are people that I've been connected to that I know don't have the belief in what I do, and they don't have the belief in my gifts.

And I've had to learn to accept that I'm finally seeing some of them for who they are. And I've had to learn to accept. That were elevate and evaporate, you know, two different wavelengths now, and I can't control their journey. I don't, it's not my job to prove to them to accept all of me. It's just my job to continue to move forward and whatever relationship that has to be on.

So that has created some distance between me and some of those solid friendships or, you know, family relationships. Because I know that. I'm just vibrating differently and it, it might take them a while. It might take them years or months to get to where I'm at and that's okay. So I think the biggest part is me just having to accept that some things had to come to an end.

Some things will come back and revisit later and just kind of accept where I was at and what my intentions are, because I'm very, I'm very extroverted. Like. I've always had groups of friends at different places. Like that's just me. I don't mean a stranger, but I think the struggle was accepting that some people just don't believe in that and they don't believe that I have the gift.

Even if I tell them stuff and it's validated, I'm like, you know what? I'm giving you free advice and you don't want to take it. That's only, so I had to accept like everything's not meant to share. Exactly. I had to accept everything's not meant to share. Like whatever I know is my business. Everything's not meant to share.

Nope. And I think that's good to remember. Yeah, exactly. That was another hard lesson and to accept that that friendship has changed and, you know, adjusted and I have outgrown some of those friendships and had to really, you know, grieve some of those friendships and just. Look at where it's at now versus how it was before.

So that was kind of hard, but I think now where I'm at, honestly, it's more peaceful because I'm like, okay, it's more like, yeah, it's more acceptance. It's more of a weight release when that does happen. Now

Chris McDonald: that acceptance is freedom. Isn't it too? It just reminds me too, of like the LGBTQ community too, with that coming out process and finding the safe people and the people that could really be in the same situation.

So you feel that connection and. I think that's why it's so important to build that community and, you know, finding like minded people. You know, that's important. So I have this podcast to really promote that and

Samantha Bell-Walker: No, that that's. So the interesting part is amongst all the transitions in the years, I actually did come out as well.

So it's like, There we go. We got double. Yeah. So it was like, Oh, I just hit everybody with one thing at one time. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. And I think, yeah, I think that helped with the acceptance piece as well. Cause it's like, if you can't accept me for who I am and these gifts I'm bringing and throwing in your face, then you need to go.

Cause I just ain't got time. And I found community and other people. So I think that's helped as well. And that's another struggle with the core beliefs and the religious. pieces, me for one having to accept, you know, my sexuality, then having to accept the gifts. It was so many layers through those years that it was like, okay, I'm tired of like living in the shadows, you know, and hindering myself and carrying all this stress and all this baggage and, you know, having to deal with, you know, the chronic pain that came with all of that mess.

And then when I started unpacking everything, I mean, I could care less now. Like, you gotta go. I just gotta go. Yeah. Like, nope. If you can't accept me and my wife, or you can't accept me and my, my spiritual gifts, okay then. I, I, I'm okay with it.

Chris McDonald: Moving on. Right. Yep.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Exactly. Exactly.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. No, that makes, that makes a whole lot of sense too.

So is there any way that you combine like both religion and spirituality? Any practices or what about for you?

Samantha Bell-Walker: I think, yeah, I think the way I've combined the two is through the praying and through like certain chapters and Bible verses. You know, that I've needed to find that sense of comfort or needed for some of the different spiritual practices.

I think those kind of keep me solidified and grounded, you know, without having to subscribe to structured thinking and structured ways and structured morals. And then also just plugging it all in. Cause what I've noticed on this journey is honestly, All of these things are spirituality. They're just from different perspectives.

Like even with Reiki, Reiki is just an Eastern perspective of healing the body, healing the mind through prayer, through a different type of like, they use affirmations for goodness sakes when it comes to the chakras. It's just, Using spiritual practices to heal the body from a different way. And, you know, I also identify with shamanism and indigenous practices.

And that's another thing they're just using another way to heal. The body and the mind and the spirit, they're all doing the same thing. They're just speaking different languages. And I feel like I'm just bilingual over here in spirituality. I'm going to, I'm going to like have a big, like smorgasbord and just use whichever feels the best to me.

So I really feel eclectic in that, like, whatever I feel is needed for the person that I'm connecting with, but also for myself is, you know, I had to accept, I can pull things from different regions of the world. And still find them beneficial for me and where I'm at in my life, but also for other individuals and other clients.

Chris McDonald: How has this changed you as a clinician to, because this is recent.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Yeah. And it's been like the pet, you know, honestly, it's taken me from being very rigid. I think very rigid and feeling like everything has to fit into a box. Everything has to be a certain way. Everything has to be like, if I don't pull from this theory and this theory, and I don't execute this, this coping skill this way, or, you know, do this intervention this way, Oh, something is wrong.

So I think it's just made me myself. Just be more open and accepting of me as a clinician, but also other people. And I've attracted people that are like minded, which makes a world of a difference too.

Chris McDonald: Isn't that crazy how we start to attract that too? I had one new client recently who's really She's, she's really like hippie, like, and she was like, I'm like, how did you find me?

She's like, I don't even know. It was the weirdest thing. It was just like somehow online. I found she, she doesn't even remember. It was just like, sometimes I feel like spirit can drive us. Right. It was just, I mean, and when, once she started talking and I just was like, I'm getting, I'm just sensing that there's a connection in a past life and she looks at me,

Speaker 3: she's just wide and she's like, I am so glad I found you.

It's crazy. They seek you out. It's just so crazy. Oh, I know. It's just, they're so like, it's like a, I don't know how to describe it, but it's like a big sigh of relief. They're like, Oh my gosh,

Chris McDonald: so we can talk about this, these kinds of practices and tarot and we can talk about chakras and oh my goodness.

It's like such a relief and connection and you know, they feel like they can be themselves too because they have a lot of these practices and we can be open about and have these discussions, you know? So cool.

Samantha Bell-Walker: But I love it because it is. Just everybody wants healing and it's trying to figure out like, yeah, okay, how, how can I find it for myself and and clients?

It is, it is interesting. I always say Spirit has a sense of humor. 'cause they will play around and they will send you who needs to be said to you absolute at the right time to be Yeah. At the right time. Who doesn't need to be like, they'll protect you from that as well's. True. 'cause I've had some in, you know, I've had like one or two that have fell off what I've been, you know, really.

Doug into some of the spiritual things and, you know, I've gotten confirmation. It is because they're not, you know, spiritual or, you know, they're, you know, elevated. So low spirit wanted to protect, you know, so I have to kind of keep in line. That's true. Yeah. I'm like a plea people, please are in recovery.

So like, no, why don't they want to be with me anymore? Like they didn't answer the phone. What is going on? And I had to be like, no, So, you know, I just remind myself now, yeah, I remind myself now it's protection. And that doesn't like, like I said, it doesn't really happen anymore. That's good for therapists

Chris McDonald: listening too.

Because I think especially as you're trying to fill a practice and trying to get clients that maybe there's a reason that that person's not calling back. And maybe that's not

Samantha Bell-Walker: a client meant for you. It is protection. Let them go because I think once I've embraced that and I paused on trying to seek and pull and pull so much I've gotten the people that I needed to they're also in the process of tapping into you know Spirituality their passion their purpose is sometimes I don't even have to ask it just comes to me And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do this.

Thank you. Much blessings, angels. Thank you. Exactly. And

Chris McDonald: they always have your back, right?

Samantha Bell-Walker: Oh, all day, every day.

Chris McDonald: Yeah. So what advice would you offer to a clinician who might be coming from a background like you with religion and they're trying to explore their spiritual side, but they're not sure, what would you say to them?

Samantha Bell-Walker: That's a good question. I would say just truly, truly. You know, look in the mirror and ask yourself, who do you see and who do you want to be? And if who you see doesn't align with who you need to be, then you need to walk into your truth. Like you need to walk into your truth. You need to speak your truth.

You need to marry your truth. You need to be your truth. There's nobody that Can live this life for you. There's, there's nobody who can do the things that you do except for you. And you're going to keep being met with resistance and bumps and hurdles and hiccups until you start embracing your true self, your true authentic self and what you came to this life to do.

And if you want to live a life of fulfillment, that's what you need to do.

Chris McDonald: Mic drop. Right. Yes.

Speaker 3: There

Samantha Bell-Walker: she goes.

Chris McDonald: If you're on YouTube, you can watch this. Well, thank you so much for coming to the podcast, Samantha. This has been great.

Samantha Bell-Walker: Oh, you are welcome. You are welcome. Anytime.

Chris McDonald: What's the best way for listeners to find you and learn more about you?

Samantha Bell-Walker: That's a good one. So, All my thing is on there. All my stuff is kind of under one little umbrella, the Attune Clinician, right? That's kind of my spirit ego. We'll call it the attuneclinician. com on Instagram, the Attune Clinician on Facebook, the Attune Clinician.

Chris McDonald: Excellent. And we'll have that in the show notes for listeners to find that as well.

And thank you listeners for being with us on this journey today. This was a really fun conversation. I hope you got a lot out of it. And if you do make sure you give a five star rating or review. And I have a gift for you, a 30 day free or a meditation app guest pass to help you find peace and get restful sleep.

Check it out today at hcpodcast. org forward slash better sleep. That's hcpodcast. org forward slash better sleep. Once again, this is Chris McDonald sending each one of you much light and love. Until next time. Take care. Thanks for listening. The information in this podcast is for general educational purposes only, and it is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are giving legal financial counseling or any other kind of professional advice.

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